Can singapore hold its own?

[Ozzy Blizzard]

I beg to differ.

If Australia have plans to invade Singapore, her military commanders have to think twice.
The proffesionalism and capabilities of SAF is on par with her Australian
counterparts.
The RSAF is capable to carry out multiple air sorties and can definitely matched the RAAF.
Any aggressors will have to face the entire nation of SINGAPORE and not the SAF alone.
Do bear in mind that Singapore has successfully intergrate the concept of TOTAL DEFENCE to her society.
TOTAL DEFENCE messages are being put across to all Singaporeans through the media masses, public education system, the SAF, the various government agencies, schools, institutions, the members of public etc,etc.
Usually refered to as 'a red dot on the map,' SAF does pack a lethal PUNCH.
We have 62 F-16C/D block 52/52+.
We have procured 12 F-15SG and trust me, RSAF will eventually operate at least 60 of such aircraft if not 80, depending on the developments of JSF35.
There's plan to procure anti-ballistic missile system within the next 2-3 years.
Our FORMIDABLE class stealth frigates is rated as equally powerful to the AEGIS equipped warships of the Japanese navy.
There are plans to augment the Aster 15 system with the Aster 30 system in order to deploy the ubiquitous European PAAMS naval defence system to the RSN.
However, the invasion by Australia or any other countries in the region is just a scenario of possibilities.
Let's look forward towards a better and intergrated multi-nation region.
Thank you.

Who ever said we were going to invade???? Why on earth would we want too??? How exactly would we go about doing it???? We have a better chance of diong so than TNI and maybe even Malaysia but i dont see it even being possible. We have 8 regular battalions! You think we could invade a city the size of singapore? Even IF we achieved air a naval superiority/supremacy we wouldnt have a chance in hell.

If you gave us a year or two to mobilise to a similar level as you guys then we would standa much better chance, of at least inflicting a defeat on RSAF if not actually take the city. This reidiculous scenario would require the compliance of the indonesians. With a GDP of over a trillion $AUD, Australia has the largest latent military capability in SEA and we would stand a much better chance than anyone else in the region. We currently spend 1.9% of GDP on defence. 3% would not break the bank. That would mean $30bn+ pa, then we could afford 2 pocket carriers with a squadron of F35b's/AV8b's, 5/6 squadrons of F35's instead of four, 6x AWD's, 2 more collins and a mechanised brigade. Imagine if we went to 4% (on par with the US) or even 5%?? Then this scenario might change a bit.

However as it stands the ADF could not defeat SAF on your ground. That being said i seriosly doubt that SAF could challage the RAAF and RAN on our ground, i.e. within our sensor footprint. Which funnily enough is the objective of these two orginisations, to defend their ground and strike hard at an attacking force. It seems they are both superbly positioned and equiped to achieve that goal.

 

[Transient]

Fully agree with Ozzy. If Australia really wanted to invade, was willing to devote enough money, and was given enough time, then Australia might have a chance. But as it is, Australia has no chance at all in a successful invasion. Not that Australia would ever want to invade Singapore. Why would Australia want another 3 million more kiasu Singaporeans?

SGmilitary, please do more research. Nobody would ever rate a Formidable class FFG anywhere near an AEGIS destroyer in capability. It might be comparable to SPY-1K based or even SPY-1F based versions, but definitely not the SPY-1B/D versions. Neither is the system on the Formidables based on PAAMs. And the silos on them cannot take Aster 30s.

In any force on force comparison between Singapore and Malaysia, do not forget to take into consideration Singapore's 21st div and its unique capabilities. It's amphibious and heli-assault capabilites hold Malaysia's right flank and rear at risk and will force Malaysia to devote significant forces into covering its flanks or risk getting its forces enveloped. Singapore already enjoys a numerical advantage. Forcing Malaysia's ground forces to divide themselves even thinner in this manner means they will be taken out piecemeal.

 

[Mr Ignorant]

Let's try this scenario. The 3rd and 6th Divisions launch a full pre emptive strike against the MAF. Both divisions sustain heavy casualties in the first week alone, where some elements are cut down by at least a half, before some parity is restored 2.5 miles into Malaysian Soil.

At this stage, a full third of all SAF fighter aircraft have been destroyed, and half of their Navy Squadrons have been sunk via anti ship missiles and torpedoes.

Meanwhile, elements of the 9th Division are still holed up at home, for use as reserves. They're keen on blogging, PS3 and watching MTV.

The RMAF at this stage would have fully lost 50% of all it's fighter aircraft, but still retains functionality. The MAF have deployed some 15 RAMD and 5 RRD Battalions in Johor and have been cut down by a third. This in addition to artillery, tanks and AA in the State.

In the 2nd week, the RSN have lost 75% of their capability and the RSAF are now down to a third of their actual strength. Lead elements of the 3rd and 6th Divisions are trapped in Johor, and are now low on fuel, rations, and ammunition, but hell yeah those rugged PDAs can still work. At this point, SAF dead and wounded are stranded, with somewhat erratic medical services available, despite the constant heavy bombardment pouring down.

Sometime in the third and final week, the MAF have called upon all resources to finish once and for all the SAF divisions on Johor soil. The 3rd and 6th Divisions are trapped in a terrible pocket, reined in by the MAF in set Star formations. Despite the fierce fighting, brave and tenacious Singaporean youth are maimed, paralysed, killed, and abandoned in the pocket, as their Politicians begin to wake up to the nightmare they've unleashed.60 tonne Tanks, IFVs and APCs become molten hunks of metal, with no Fuel whatsoever to run them. But hey, those PDAs, webcams and PCs can still work.

And now, Malaysian Psy Ops. RSAF dead, wounded and captured are paraded on Youtube for their immediate relatives and friends to watch. The RSN Landing ships are now enjoying the scenery, sunk underneath the Johor Straits, where in the future, would be a haven for tourists and divers to gawp and watch.

Is that scenario more likely? After all, it's as preposterous as the ones described in previous posts.

Good day

 

[Mr Ignorant]

My Ignorant

I would like to carry on this discussion with you but I really hope you would stop baiting the Moderators.

I tried to find the Private Message thing so I can say this to you privately but I can't find it.

This is their forum, and unfortunately, they can do what they please. I, too, do not like threads being closed but it seems this is one way to regulate things to their standards, so bear with it.

Hey there Chino,

I am not embarrased at all. I mean enough is enough, and I've read the rules, and nothing in it mentions anything about politics. Maybe it's because as Clausewitz states, War is just an extension of politics.

Both are intertwined and in fact, warfare is about politics.

Thanks for your support, but should they censure me, then it is entirely up to them. They can then rewrite the rules to make it less confusing to IGNORANT forummers like me.

On your trips to Malaysia. By now, I know you appreciate my country, but yeah, by all means, buy a house here and a cheap Proton. The quality of life is good, we generally like Singaporeans, and if you have driven from Kuching to Kota Kinabalu, you would still be able to enjoy the sights and sounds. Let me recommend Sibu or Kota Kinabalu, for those wonderful mortgages.

Now please excuse me, as I let off steam for a day or so

 

[paskal]

I beg to differ.

If Australia have plans to invade Singapore, her military commanders have to think twice.
The proffesionalism and capabilities of SAF is on par with her Australian
counterparts.
The RSAF is capable to carry out multiple air sorties and can definitely matched the RAAF.
Any aggressors will have to face the entire nation of SINGAPORE and not the SAF alone.
Do bear in mind that Singapore has successfully intergrate the concept of TOTAL DEFENCE to her society.
TOTAL DEFENCE messages are being put across to all Singaporeans through the media masses, public education system, the SAF, the various government agencies, schools, institutions, the members of public etc,etc.
Usually refered to as 'a red dot on the map,' SAF does pack a lethal PUNCH.
We have 62 F-16C/D block 52/52+.
We have procured 12 F-15SG and trust me, RSAF will eventually operate at least 60 of such aircraft if not 80, depending on the developments of JSF35.
There's plan to procure anti-ballistic missile system within the next 2-3 years.
Our FORMIDABLE class stealth frigates is rated as equally powerful to the AEGIS equipped warships of the Japanese navy.
There are plans to augment the Aster 15 system with the Aster 30 system in order to deploy the ubiquitous European PAAMS naval defence system to the RSN.
However, the invasion by Australia or any other countries in the region is just a scenario of possibilities.
Let's look forward towards a better and intergrated multi-nation region.
Thank you.

dude chill....
the only think that i am sayin that australia forces is the strongest in this region......
we must all admit that!
very funny about saying the RSAF is at the same par with the RSAF....
They have around 21f-111,
33 hawk 127,
71 f-18,
the coming 24 super hornets block II,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Royal_Australian_Air_Force

i bet that can crushed the singapore air foce:nutkick
singapore has 62 f-16 and to come 12 f-15 sg,
i wont take no crap abot saying singapore gonna buy 80 of them untill the deal is sealed.
australia too is said to purcahse the f-22.

All the other aircraft that singapore has is to said to be relaced by the f-15 sg......

I want yo t get my point clear....
the aussies is not gonna conquer your country but is the strongest in this region!
gt the point........

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

very funny about saying the RSAF is at the same par with the RSAF...."

Whilst I think comparisons are normally meaningless, I can venture to say with some degree of confidence that the RSAF is definitely on par with the RSAF.

71 f-18,

Which are of course the A/B versions.

singapore has 62 f-16 and to come 12 f-15 sg,

Just wanted to highlight that UN transfers indicated 94 F16C/Ds transferred to RSAF between 1998 to 2005. All of which are the Blk 50+ versions. The RSAF also has ~40-70+ upgraded F5s with the GRIFO radar.

I will leave it to "experts" to compare the differences between the Blk 52 F16s and the upgraded F18A/Bs.

All the other aircraft that singapore has is to said to be relaced by the f-15 sg......

Not really. The current F15 purchase is intended to replace 1 squadron of A4s. There are 3 remaining squadrons of F5s. Based on the current timeline, it is more likely additional F15s will be procured to replace 1 of the F5 sqns and the JSF will replace the remaining + F16 squadrons when it comes online.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Whilst I think comparisons are normally meaningless, I can venture to say with some degree of confidence that the RSAF is definitely on par with the RSAF.

Am i missing something or is this a joke???

Which are of course the A/B versions.

They were when we bought them. But boeing officially reffers to them as C/D's now. In any case they are a fair way through the HUG programe (hornet upgrade) which includes a new radar, EW kit and comprehensive avionics package. Aussie HUG hornetts are reffered to by boeing as the most capable legacy hornets on the planet, including USN bugs. So i think you've missed the point a bit by calling them "A/B's". With the addition of ASRAAM and a JHMCS + AIM 120C5, they are formidable platforms and i would argue more than a match for an F16 block 50.

Just wanted to highlight that UN transfers indicated 94 F16C/Ds transferred to RSAF between 1998 to 2005. All of which are the Blk 50+ versions. The RSAF also has ~40-70+ upgraded F5s with the GRIFO radar.

How many are operational and battle ready???? Not the fulkl number i would think. How many squadrons of F16's are operational? 4, maybe 5? In numerical terms your on par with the RAAF. F5's are almost not worth counting, vs the RAAF.

I will leave it to "experts" to compare the differences between the Blk 52 F16s and the upgraded F18A/Bs.

Do you understand what a block upgrade includes? It is usually primarily an avionics and weapons upgrade. Australian bugs have had more avionics and weapons upgrades than USN bugs, so you are incorect in refering to Aussie bugs as upgraded "A/B's" when less capable USN bugs are refered to as C/D's. That makes heaps of sense.

The only real advantage RSAF holds over the RAAF at the moment is AEW&C and that will change in 2009 with Wedgetail's indroduction. By 2010 the RAAF will achieve a impresive leap in capability with the F18F and Wedgetail going operational. The combination of JORN, Wedgetail and F/A 18F-C/D will mean the RAAF will be one tough nut to crack in the southern half of SEA and in the Sea Air gap.

 

[paskal]

Am i missing something or is this a joke???




They were when we bought them. But boeing officially reffers to them as C/D's now. In any case they are a fair way through the HUG programe (hornet upgrade) which includes a new radar, EW kit and comprehensive avionics package. Aussie HUG hornetts are reffered to by boeing as the most capable legacy hornets on the planet, including USN bugs. So i think you've missed the point a bit by calling them "A/B's". With the addition of ASRAAM and a JHMCS + AIM 120C5, they are formidable platforms and i would argue more than a match for an F16 block 50.




How many are operational and battle ready???? Not the fulkl number i would think. How many squadrons of F16's are operational? 4, maybe 5? In numerical terms your on par with the RAAF. F5's are almost not worth counting, vs the RAAF.



Do you understand what a block upgrade includes? It is usually primarily an avionics and weapons upgrade. Australian bugs have had more avionics and weapons upgrades than USN bugs, so you are incorect in refering to Aussie bugs as upgraded "A/B's" when less capable USN bugs are refered to as C/D's. That makes heaps of sense.

The only real advantage RSAF holds over the RAAF at the moment is AEW&C and that will change in 2009 with Wedgetail's indroduction. By 2010 the RAAF will achieve a impresive leap in capability with the F18F and Wedgetail going operational. The combination of JORN, Wedgetail and F/A 18F-C/D will mean the RAAF will be one tough nut to crack in the southern half of SEA and in the Sea Air gap.

nicely said....
its RAAF and RSAF......
you cannot defy the point that the aussies have the best force in this region...
ill admit that singapore forces are larger tah the other forces in this region but it cannot match the aussies.

 

[paskal]

With what to strike at SG?

The problem with TNI, it simply don't have the capibility to strike at SG at all!

Let's look at the some senario:

1) Airstrike

With their small and depleted AF plus the fact that they don't have any standoff weapon and PGM except a few old TV guided Maverick( max range of 27km).

And their small number of F-16A/B with only WVR AAM will be facing our large number of F-16C/D 52/52+ with BVR missile with Awacs support.It is simply no fight.

Let's say one F-16A/B does sneak through the SG's fighter defence, it will be facing large number of SAM cover including medium 40km range Improved Hawk, it will be fire upon even before it could release any munition that TNI-AU currently have, it is simply a suicide mission.

2) Expeditionary force

TNI does not have any Expeditionary force at all, the recent Tsunami over in Aceh clearly shown the deficiency of TNI because they don't have any modern LST/LPD , heavy lift helicopter etc.

Even with some LPD from Skorea which are still under delivery plus Mi-17 etc, current TNI-AU inventory will not be able to provide sufficient air cover for them.

So it is also another suicide mission.

As for whether RSAF could strike back, I think that is a lot of info regarding it's ELINT,EW capabilities etc has already been posted, so I will not repeat them.

Currently RSAF has standoff weapons like Longshot and the future AGM-154A Joint Standoff Weapons , PGM like the GBU-10/12 plus the future JDAM and whatever secret weapons from Israel etc, RSAF is more than capable to strike at whatever targets in Indonesia especially it has a very small number of modern fighters and only protected by VSHORADS like Rapier, RBS-70 and AAA.

Just look at what happen to Syria recently which is much better in term of numbers of fighters and SAM cover as compare to Indonesia, could not stop the Israeli F-16 and F-15 at striking at them, RSAF's F-16 and future F-15 which also contain proven Israeli EW suite, so RSAF ability to strike at Indonesia is certainly not in question at all.



What evidence do you have that SU-30 will defeat F-16 and F-15?

Please don't post Indian media BS nationalistic report about those restrictive and unrealistic simulated exe or those from Russian manufacturer marketing gimmick reports, those are all biased.

In reality, so far there is no combat record of any SU-27/30 against any western made fighters, simulated exe will never be able to simulate any EW capabilities of the a/c and the AAMs.

For example the Mig-29, during simulated exe , look impressive but in a real combat, it failed miserably, having one of the worst combat record against other combat a/c.

So will SU-30 be similar to the Mig-29?

That remain to be seen.

As for ground invasion, SAF doing it or TNI doing it?

First thing, as I already mentioned, TNI, do not any expeditionary capability, so TNI ground invasion is a mooted point. SAF could possibly invade the Riau islands but I don't see the point for that as long as TNI has no capabity to invade SG so that it is not necessary at all.

Next is, what do you mean that SG will not deploy NS men during a war?

The point of our NS system is to prepare for war, if they don't deploy NS men during a war, then what's the point of having a NS system?

In reality both MY and Indon do not have capability to start a war with SG, SAF has both qualitative and quantitatve over MAF, so it is stupid for MY start a war with SG.

TNI only have quantitatve advantages in term of number of troops and navy ships but certainly not in quality, they have no strike and expeditionary capabilty , so that is not possible also.

Next is both MY and Indon have very low or no national reserve to sustain a war whereas SG has more national reserve than both nations combine plus the fact that SG has a very good arms industry to sustain a war effort by resupplying ammo and weapons for SAF.

Lastly , there is another thing that need to be calculated into the equation, FPDA and the presence of US forces in SG, TNI will be foolish not to consider that.

Afterall, SG is consider as a non NATO ally of the US, even without supplying of troops for the defence of SG, they will certainly supply more high tech weaponary for SG to win it.

So the question is , can singapore hold itself?

Yes, certainly can against the regional nations, that is why you see the discussion in the earliar postings by the neutrals in this thread switched from regional nations to China and even Australia, because the neutrals already dismissed regional nations as a threat to SG.

do you now even why the mig's lost....
it is first because of the inexperience iraqis pilots...
and the main reason is because the americans were equipped with amramms while the mig's doesnt have the r-77,
as you can see the amraams has a 100% shot killed ratio.

 

[Chino]

Hey there Chino,

I am not embarrased at all. I mean enough is enough, and I've read the rules, and nothing in it mentions anything about politics. Maybe it's because as Clausewitz states, War is just an extension of politics.

Both are intertwined and in fact, warfare is about politics.

Thanks for your support, but should they censure me, then it is entirely up to them. They can then rewrite the rules to make it less confusing to IGNORANT forummers like me.

On your trips to Malaysia. By now, I know you appreciate my country, but yeah, by all means, buy a house here and a cheap Proton. The quality of life is good, we generally like Singaporeans, and if you have driven from Kuching to Kota Kinabalu, you would still be able to enjoy the sights and sounds. Let me recommend Sibu or Kota Kinabalu, for those wonderful mortgages.

Now please excuse me, as I let off steam for a day or so

Yes, I envy you Malaysians having such a lovely country and a generally peaceful population.

Do you know that I have seen a toad in the jungles of Peninsula Malaysia that is about the size of a grown cat?

And in Sabah jungles there is a little red frog that barks like a puppy? And that there are big, fast flying insects that has bright blinking lights like a miniature helicopter? Man, National Geographic would go apeshxt. If only they knew.

And unlike many Singaporeans, I actually think it is a blessing we have you guys for neighbour. Wars happen between neighbours 90% of the time but despite frequent squabbles, I feel the chance for war between us very rare, as I stated in the beginning.

I would dread if we shared a Causeway with Indonesia, for example.

However, in the interest of "war-gaming" as we armchair soldiers do, I paint a hypothetical scenario of SAF invading for X reason. Because ultimately, I feel we have a truly much more aggressive military policy for very long though it is the Malaysian politicians who talk tough.

(Oops, politics...)

And as I mentioned many times, once boots are on the ground nothing is guaranteed. That MAF may win and we lose is not impossible. Even the mighty Israelis nearly lost the Yom Kippur War to Egypt due to their arrogance after the Six Day War.

However, I do find your scenario including reservists at home blogging and PS3 very funny - and not untrue.

One advantage MAF has over the SAF is that MAF units are theoretically active 365 days a year. There don't need to be any mobilisation etc and if well-disguised, MAF can concentrate enough of her troops down South without initially raising too much alarm.

Such was the case when TNI and MAF suddenly conducted combined airborne drops in Johore during one of our National Day celebrations many years ago. This resulted in mobilisation of some of our active units.

 

[Transient]

15 year old Paskal, Of course the RAAF is more capable than the RSAF, once Australia gets its Wedgetails. But RAAF will never be attacking Singapore. And they don't have the capability to 'crush' Singapore. Your 15 year old mentality is showing here. Try reading Ozzy's post again.

The only plausible enemies Singapore has are Malaysia and Indonesia. The TNI can do nothing to the Singapore. What can it do? With what? A fleet of aircraft that doesn't fly? Ships that are so rusty that they are about to sink? They cannot even do much to Malaysia, as they found out in the last standoff. What makes you think they could hurt Singapore with their armed forces in any way?

 

[Chino]

Oh no, pissing contest now extended to include the Aussie's as well...

Next there'll be people saying we are actually better than the US Army.

Neither country has the ability to conduct war on each other. Not at this distance and for no clear objectives. Countries don't just go and start bombing each other without goals like capturing territory etc...

Having a clear objective can help you better evaluate the chances of who winning or losing. No point saying our airforce can beat their airforce - how? where? when? why?

However, what if...

Singapore decides to take Christmas Island back by force tomorrow - not 2009 - how will things play out?

 

[gary1910]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-16
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-30

you should look at this very carefully before speking up your next words...
the su-30 is a multirole aircraft that is one of the best in air superiority while the f-15 sg is more for attacking land forces.
The f-16 is out of the topic against the su-30.

As about the NS men you should read my sentence properly before making a harsh move.
i was saying if it was a long invasion the Ns men will not likely go as it may destroy the singapore economy.Theres a fact that singapore is small.It will take them lots of time to deploy thier full forces.

About the malaysian and indonesian reserves.
You should now once war occur especially when the country is a defender nearly all people that are capable of holding a gun will be deploy.The israelis did this.They never even count it as reservist.To your surprise they won all combats wit the more stronger equiped arabs.That is an advantage of a defender.
Malysia has around 50,000 reservist that i do not count as reservist because every year they have a 3 months training with the MAF.
you should now that the reservist never include the womans army,rela,wataniah and lots of more.

A war with malaysia is the last thing that will occur.
If even it will be the SAF at the attacking side not malaysia.

Put malaysia out of this discussion.
Indonesia maybe because of the sand thats singapore needs badly.
You shouldnt under estimate a country.
The US did that and suffer a terrible blow.
The arabs did that and they also suffered.

So back to my point indonesia,malaysia even thailand cannot invade singapore but can hit it quite bad.but they will likely suffer back badly.It is easy take it like this.
singapore city destroyed,within one day KL or Jakarta is in smoke.

So the only country that i see that can invade singapore that is in this region is Ausrtalia .
They got the bombs they got the jets they got the technology.
It is nearly impossible that this scenario will occur.
What i mean is australian forces is the strongest in this region.

Where the hell you heard that our F-15SG is just only good for A-G mission?

It is multi role fighter just like our F-16, otherwise why bother to installed an AESA radar just for A-G mission, go read about the advantages of ASEA radar over the older radar in A-A fighting capability.

TNI at the moment only has 4 non weaponised SU-27/30 and only getting another 6 by getting a soft loan from Russia.

At the end of decade, it will be TNI's 10 Su-27/30 + 12 F-5E/F + 12 F-16A/B vs
RSAF's 62 F-16 +45 F-5S/T + 12 F-15.
( Note: Due to arms embargo plus years of neglect by TNI-AU, the numbers of F-5 and F-16 is reported to be smaller, the above is the number that were ordered , in service number could be smaller)

Still a 1:3 ratio, it is still too low in term of quantity to be a threat to SG.

As for your assumption of 30~40 Su-30, I only believe that after the report of an order of such magnitude, afterall Indonesia only able to order only 6 after they are able to get that soft loan from Russia.

Next is the assumption that SG will not deploy many NS men, now let me ask you this question, is the survivability of the nation more important or the economy of the nation?

Of course it is the survivability of the nation , without a nation , what's the point of the economy?!?

Next is how do you know that it will be slow for us to be fully mobilised?

We have constant mobilisation exe, I myself have went through 4 to 6 such exe during my NS tenure.It is already parts and parcels for Singaporeans, no big deal. In fact because SG is small, mobilisation is even faster than a bigger nation!

Your entire posting is based on illogical assumptions that have no backup proof , firstly TNI, MY and Thailand have little strike capability, especially against SG where it had the best AF in term quality and quantity, she has also has one of the most densely protected airspace in the world with SAM cover from medium range to AAA.

Here the summary of the SAF that I posted elsewhere here:

Here a summary:
Air defence
For air defence, SG could boost one of the world most densely protected airspace of a size just below 700 sq km.

1st layer will be the fighters, which is abt 60 F-16 Blk52/52+, 40+ upgraded BVR capable F-5S/T and soon 12 AESA equipped F-15SG, that is abt the same size of MY and Indon AF combined.

2nd layer will be the 2 batt of the recently upgraded medium range Improved Hawk.

3rd layer will be VSHORADs Rapier with Mk II missile, support with a large number of RBS-70s, Mistral and Igla MANPADS.

Last but not least is the 35mm Oerlikon AAA.

Radars:4 LORADS II, FPS-117s, Blindfire , P-Star etc.

AEW: 4 E-2C and soon to be replaced by 4 G550 AEW.

AH: 20 AH-64D , some with Longbow radar.

UAV: Searcher MkII and Hermes 500.

Currently, we are also looking at TBM defences, especially with introduction China C-802 and possible Brahmos into the region.

Land defence

Other than the 3 Combined Arms Div(2 infantry Bde and 1 light armoured Bde), 1 RDF(air assualt and amphibious bdes) and possible one heavy armoured bde.

We have for protection of SG is the People's Defence Force which is at least abt 2 Div strength, supported with ASU with V200 APC and possibly 155mm arty formed by reserve units.

Naval defence
6 Stealth FFGs to replace 6 MGB, 6 missile corvettes, 11 patrol crafts. 4 SSK with additional of 2 AIP SSK in the near future, 4 LSTs and lastly 5 Harpoon equipped Fokker 50MPA.

So unless all 3 nations AF combined, otherwise non of them could successfully strike at SG, let's alone destroy SG.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Am i missing something or is this a joke???

lol. It was meant to be funny. Just quoting someone.

They were when we bought them. But boeing officially reffers to them as C/D's now. In any case they are a fair way through the HUG programe (hornet upgrade) which includes a new radar, EW kit and comprehensive avionics package. Aussie HUG hornetts are reffered to by boeing as the most capable legacy hornets on the planet, including USN bugs. So i think you've missed the point a bit by calling them "A/B's". With the addition of ASRAAM and a JHMCS + AIM 120C5, they are formidable platforms and i would argue more than a match for an F16 block 50.

Agree, but I wasn't comparing the F18 to the F16 in my earlier post.

How many are operational and battle ready???? Not the fulkl number i would think. How many squadrons of F16's are operational? 4, maybe 5? In numerical terms your on par with the RAAF. F5's are almost not worth counting, vs the RAAF.

I would say all 94. Since that's 2005 imports. Would it take 2 years?

Are the F5s really "not worth counting"? Grifo-F with avionics upgrade, Link 16 + Python/Amraam JHMCS capability. Its not consistent to make a fuss over the upgrades to the F18A/Bs and not count the upgrade to the F5s either.

Do you understand what a block upgrade includes? It is usually primarily an avionics and weapons upgrade. Australian bugs have had more avionics and weapons upgrades than USN bugs, so you are incorect in refering to Aussie bugs as upgraded "A/B's" when less capable USN bugs are refered to as C/D's. That makes heaps of sense.

Of course, and do you know what goes into the RSAF F16 Block 52+s?

The F18's APG-73 is 10kg lighter than APG 68(v) versions and smaller. In the US, the -68 is considered the most reliable radar in the market with a solid mtbf. The (v)9's search range for the 52+ exceeds the -73 in terms of power, processing and capabilities to the APG-73 + additional modes (reaching 296km) and I'm quoting Jane's electronics here. Amazing when I read the specs. Used to think the APG-73 was a better radar before I read Janes.

Sure, the F18s come with ALQ-162s but the F16s are equipped with towed decoys and the israeli ew suite (SPS 3000). Both have JHMCS (dash 3 in RSAF's case) with Amraams though the Aussie bugs could have the later AMRAAM versions (too lazy to check) but that's offset vis a vis the Python. F16s comes with lantern Flir pods too etc.

Agreed, these export F18s and F16s are not the bomb trucks that the USAF operates (esp when it has the F15Cs and F22s for air sup missions). In the F16s case, these are not upgrades but almost the latest advanced electronics one can put into a fighter.

I'd sau that pilot skill on a 1-1 will be the difference but its not going to be 1-1 isn't it... its more like 1-0 because both aren't gonna fight each other. The US will just sanction and both F18s and F16s will be relegated into the scrap heap.

The only real advantage RSAF holds over the RAAF at the moment is AEW&C and that will change in 2009 with Wedgetail's indroduction. By 2010 the RAAF will achieve a impresive leap in capability with the F18F and Wedgetail going operational. The combination of JORN, Wedgetail and F/A 18F-C/D will mean the RAAF will be one tough nut to crack in the southern half of SEA and in the Sea Air gap.

And what a difference that makes right now as you have kindly pointed out with your jibe in terms of operational. All of us can appreciate what awacs can do. The wedgetail is a solid aircraft but makes one wonder why the RSAF went for the G550 when they could have considered the wedgetail too....

I agree with Transient. Comparisons bet the RAAF and the RSAF is irrelevant. Both train together and will probably fight together (if the RSAF ever enters combat, I'm sure Australia will be by its side).

 

[gary1910]

do you now even why the mig's lost....
it is first because of the inexperience iraqis pilots...
and the main reason is because the americans were equipped with amramms while the mig's doesnt have the r-77,
as you can see the amraams has a 100% shot killed ratio.

Not just Iraqi Mig-29 but also Mig-29 from other nations has been shot down as well, whatever it is, Mig-29 just don't inspire confidence because of it's poor combat record unlike all those success in simulated exe.

What I am trying to say is that simulated exe and those biased report cannot be trusted until it has performed well in actual combat because in simulated exe, EW capability cannot be simulated, the kill ratio of AAM could not be known in different EW "enviroment", AF in those simulated exe also do not want to reveal the true capability of their a/c and AAM during bilateral exe.

So with some many unknowns, simulated exe will not truly reflect the actual combat.

Only thing to be 100% sure is based on the actual combat record, especially with Russian weaponary where many have been found deficient in many conflicts through out the years.

 

[gf0012-aust]

All.

If these pecker competitions don't stop, the thread will be closed again.

Contrary to somes views, its not something that we haphazardly do.

Settle down please.

Please note that the reason why we banned comparison threads in the first place was because they end up deteriorating into:

"mines better and bigger than yours"

Paskal - you seriously need to stop making arbitrary comments that are unsupportable and open to easy challenge. It degrades your credibility and does not help at all.

So far your comments about air combat for migs, vietnam and jungle fighting have all been something not to "write home about"

If you don't know - then don't make things up.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Just in case, tot I'd better put down my source on RSAF's F16s being equipped with the 68(V)9. See notification DDTC 077-04. Israel production of the radar for end use in SG. Amazing radar. No wonder the F16 is so popular.

http://www.fas.org/asmp/profiles/no...sr&descin=&date1in=1992&date2in=2006&typein=%

Just tot I add some other links on the APG-68(V)9.

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/ASD/combat/APG-68.html

http://www.es.northropgrumman.com/ASD/brochures/combat/APG68.pdf

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

do you now even why the mig's lost....
it is first because of the inexperience iraqis pilots...
and the main reason is because the americans were equipped with amramms while the mig's doesnt have the r-77,
as you can see the amraams has a 100% shot killed ratio.

Actually, out of the 4 mig-29s shot down in 1991, 3 were killed with the AIM-7M and 1 hit the ground. The only Mig-29 shot down with an AMRAAM was by the Dutch F16AM in 1999.

17 Jan 91 PENNZOIL 63 58 TFS/33 TFW Kelk F-15C 85-119 MiG-29 AIM-7

17 Jan 91 ZEREX 71 58 TFS/33 TFW Magill F-15C 85-125 MiG-29 AIM-7

19 Jan 91 CHEVRON 26 58 TFS/33 TFW Underhill F-15C 85-122 MiG-29 AIM-7

19 Jan 91 CHEVRON 25 58 TFS/33 TFW Rodriguez F-15C 85-114 MiG-29 GROUND

24 Mar 99 RNAF F-16AM AMRAAM

Can't remember the shot distance but it wasn't really that much.

 

[paskal]

15 year old Paskal, Of course the RAAF is more capable than the RSAF, once Australia gets its Wedgetails. But RAAF will never be attacking Singapore. And they don't have the capability to 'crush' Singapore. Your 15 year old mentality is showing here. Try reading Ozzy's post again.

The only plausible enemies Singapore has are Malaysia and Indonesia. The TNI can do nothing to the Singapore. What can it do? With what? A fleet of aircraft that doesn't fly? Ships that are so rusty that they are about to sink? They cannot even do much to Malaysia, as they found out in the last standoff. What makes you think they could hurt Singapore with their armed forces in any way?

Dude how many times should i repeat myself here....
this is the last time i will repeat my self.....:unknown

THE ONLY COUNTRY THAT I THINK CAN DEFEAT THE SINGAPORE AIR FORCE IS THE AUSSIES.
IM NOT SAYING THAT A WAR WILL OCCUR AMONG THEM.
THAT WILL BE THE LAST THING THAT WILL HAPPEN.

 

[paskal]

All.

If these pecker competitions don't stop, the thread will be closed again.

Contrary to somes views, its not something that we haphazardly do.

Settle down please.

Please note that the reason why we banned comparison threads in the first place was because they end up deteriorating into:

"mines better and bigger than yours"

Paskal - you seriously need to stop making arbitrary comments that are unsupportable and open to easy challenge. It degrades your credibility and does not help at all.

So far your comments about air combat for migs, vietnam and jungle fighting have all been something not to "write home about"

If you don't know - then don't make things up.

SORRY MAN.....
by the way im telling the truth about the vietnam war.
heres the link.
http://www.vietvet.org/glossary.htm

No disrepect dude.