Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

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McTaff

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To those who aren't perhaps up on the comings and goings of the RAN, there are two Garden Islands: HMAS Stirling and HMAS Kuttabul. One is Fleet Base East in Sydney (Kuttabul) and one is Fleet Base West (Stirling).

Confuses the uninitiated :p:

I even know a few chaps in the Australian Defence Force that were unaware of that curly fact till it was bought to their attention.

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As for our Sealift capability, I'm interested to know if they'll go for the INCAT Jervis Bay-style of offering; I hope that they do. The Dili Express impressed the Yanks immensely, and I myself would prefer to see that type of capability. There is no substitute for being on time. I'm mindful of the expense of such a ship, however. In this day and age, regardless of the increasing spending on Defence we are still looking at some major expenditure already targeted in the mid term.
 

AGRA

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As for our Sealift capability, I'm interested to know if they'll go for the INCAT Jervis Bay-style of offering; I hope that they do. The Dili Express impressed the Yanks immensely, and I myself would prefer to see that type of capability. There is no substitute for being on time. I'm mindful of the expense of such a ship, however. In this day and age, regardless of the increasing spending on Defence we are still looking at some major expenditure already targeted in the mid term.
Aye, aye. The capabilities of the JSV type vessel are really impressing the yanks. The new 112m INCAT and AUSTAL equivilants add to the Jervis Bay the capability to sustain high speed transits across oceans. They are no longer coastal type boats.

With a force of >4 112mm JSVs, each with 1,500 tonnes cargo we can easily sustain into the Persian Gulf or into regional shallow ports much higher sealift cargo offloads than using 1-2 much larger RO-RO or ~10,000 tonne ferry types (like the MRV and LSDs). 2-3 JSvs to one MRV/LSD is also the cost and crew difference. With the advantages of shallow ports (<4m draft, vs >8m) and more flexible point to point cargo delivery.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
It seems I was misinformed.
I was told that the LAS design does not have the lifts to cope with the F-35B.
However the Spanish site
http://www.armada.mde.es/ArmadaPortal/
says the MV-22 Osprey can also be operated from the class, and this has a larger maximum take off weight then the F-35B. The lifts would therefore need to be able to cope with both aircraft, particularly since it explicitly says Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)

....
Si -

"Permite operar con las siguientes aeronaves:

* V-22 Osprey (Un spot localizado a popa de la Cubierta de Vuelo)
* AV-8B Plus
* Joint Strike Fighter (JSF)
* 6 x NH-90
* 6 x SH-3D
* 4 x CH-47 Chinook
* 6 x AB 212
* 1 x spot SA"

BTW, that's the official Spanish navy site.
 

alexsa

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Staff member
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I wasn't confused FT, I was only referring to refit/maintenance work in the floating dock. One of the LPA's is in the floating dock at the moment and it pretty well fills it up. It may be able to lift 45,000 tonnes but the length and breadth of an LHD may be a different matter.

Hooroo.
The 45000 tonnes is an approximate capacity realted to commercial ship size. The problem is beam as the floating dock only has a maximum allowable of 29.5 as far as I can tell. The BPE LHD has a beam of 32m so it is not going to dock in Newcastle.
 

alexsa

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Staff member
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I am going to disagree on a few points but these may be misinterpration of you comments. If so, sorry about that.

Aye, aye. The capabilities of the JSV type vessel are really impressing the yanks. The new 112m INCAT and AUSTAL equivilants add to the Jervis Bay the capability to sustain high speed transits across oceans. They are no longer coastal type boats..
No, but they are high speed craft built tothe HSC code and as such are only certified for operations wihtin 4 hours of a safe ahven for RO-PAX and 8 hours for cargo. This is in recognisionof the faxct they are only built for sea sate 4 to 5. This is pretty calm water. Work work within the gulf they would provide a very useful high speed transport and ti is my veiew this is where they come into their own.

From locations outside the gulf weather will be an isues as will range. The Austal TSV can only carry about 420 tonnes of fuel (absoulte maximum). At max speed it burns 5.3 tonnes per hour which gives a maximum endurance of less than 80 hours. Provided the weather is such that the vessel can make its 36 knots this gives a range over 2400nm but any weather will eat into range and fuel reserves. In any case this si no good for shipment from Australia or even Asia to the gulf due to range and sea state limitations. It is also woth noting the configuration of the TSV and its INCAT rival are as 'day ferries' and they are not equipped for prlonged embarkation of large numbers of troops. for this added facilities will be requried wiht a resultant imapct upon capacity and weight.

Range increase can only be achived by lower speeds and if you do that then you might as well use a 21knot cargo ship wiht a massive increase in uplift and burn less fuel. (and they cost less to run).

With a force of >4 112mm JSVs, each with 1,500 tonnes cargo we can easily sustain into the Persian Gulf or into regional shallow ports much higher sealift cargo offloads than using 1-2 much larger RO-RO or ~10,000 tonne ferry types (like the MRV and LSDs). 2-3 JSvs to one MRV/LSD is also the cost and crew difference. With the advantages of shallow ports (<4m draft, vs >8m) and more flexible point to point cargo delivery.
Both the INCAT and TSV need wharfage to discharge as their ramps are not desinged for use with landing craft nor do they ahve a dock of any type. This does mean thay are no more useful than a conventional RO-RO with a similar footprint in so far as point ot point delievery is concnered. In fact a conventional RO-RO will ahve a much beingger uplift capacity than the HSV designs.

This is not running the HSV down as they fill a niche incredibley effectively moving large numbers of troops and 'some' of their equipment over intermediate distacnes at speed (the TSV Westpac Express for instance) but if you want large uplift over long distances in all conditions they will not cut it.
 

Tasman

Ship Watcher
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This is not running the HSV down as they fill a niche incredibley effectively moving large numbers of troops and 'some' of their equipment over intermediate distacnes at speed (the TSV Westpac Express for instance) but if you want large uplift over long distances in all conditions they will not cut it.
I tend to agree with you about this Alexsa. I think that the HSV would be a very useful supplement to the LHD's and a larger sealift ship, but I am not certain they would meet the ADF's requirements for a Tobruck replacement by themselves.

Do you (or perhaps AGRA) know whether restrictions (max sea state and time from a safe haven) will be less rigid with the larger 112m design now being built by Incat than is the case with the earlier generation of HSV's?

Tas
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
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I tend to agree with you about this Alexsa. I think that the HSV would be a very useful supplement to the LHD's and a larger sealift ship, but I am not certain they would meet the ADF's requirements for a Tobruck replacement by themselves.

Do you (or perhaps AGRA) know whether restrictions (max sea state and time from a safe haven) will be less rigid with the larger 112m design now being built by Incat than is the case with the earlier generation of HSV's?

Tas
As much as I like the HSV design, the TSV (Austal) is a superior design.
The issue is not only one of speed and economics to destination, but also one of discharge rates.

TSV has it all over HSV in that respect.
 

AGRA

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No, but they are high speed craft built tothe HSC code and as such are only certified for operations wihtin 4 hours of a safe ahven for RO-PAX and 8 hours for cargo. This is in recognisionof the faxct they are only built for sea sate 4 to 5. This is pretty calm water.
Ahh that’s good data for <98m WPCs, but I'm talking about the 112m WPC. It is designed to provide acceptable personnel comfort in high sea state 5 and low sea state 6 waters.

From locations outside the gulf weather will be an isues as will range. The Austal TSV can only carry about 420 tonnes of fuel (absoulte maximum). At max speed it burns 5.3 tonnes per hour which gives a maximum endurance of less than 80 hours. Provided the weather is such that the vessel can make its 36 knots this gives a range over 2400nm but any weather will eat into range and fuel reserves.
Again I’m using the 112m WPC seaframe as a model not the Austal 101m TSV. Its fuel burns are:

With 835 tonnes of diesel carrying 1,000 tonnes of cargo it can sail 5,000 NM at 40 knots (5 days) or 8,850 NM at 25 knots (14 days).

Both the INCAT and TSV need wharfage to discharge as their ramps are not desinged for use with landing craft nor do they ahve a dock of any type. This does mean thay are no more useful than a conventional RO-RO with a similar footprint in so far as point ot point delievery is concnered.
Except in most regional ports like Dili, East Timor in which the shallow water will not allow a >8m draft RO-RO into the wharf. However a shallow 3.8m draft loaded 112m WPC can dock at the wharf side. This difference is hugely important to access wharfs and sheltered bays across SE Asia, the SW Pacific and even northern Australia.

This is not running the HSV down as they fill a niche incredibley effectively moving large numbers of troops and 'some' of their equipment over intermediate distacnes at speed (the TSV Westpac Express for instance) but if you want large uplift over long distances in all conditions they will not cut it.
Again I’m not talking about the civil ferries but about what Austal, INCAT and Dereckor and Nichols Brothers will be offering the US for the JSV. This requirement includes the ability of each ship to deploy a helicopters squadron from either the US east or west coast to the Persian Gulf in under 14 days. If you can do that you can do anything we would need the ships for.

http://www.marad.dot.gov/nmrec/images/Bollinger-Savoye.pdf
 

McTaff

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(Paraphrasing)This is all about about what Austal, INCAT and Dereckor and Nichols Brothers will be offering the US for the JSV, and potentially what could come out of the development.
Assuming they get to it first, once the US get knees-deep into this sort of development, it is the time that the RAN (and others) can scavenge on some of the development process.

Initially, the WPC looks nice, and has some shortfalls. However, once they are under construction (and not withstanding the goal posts being moved, different committees start hammering around with the usual malleable->rigid->malleable budgetary and capability requirements) lessons get learned.

Some of these lessons will potentially start to answer some of the discharge and landing flexibility questions, and some (such as the long term crew on board) issue would possibly be a 'gripe' that is worked out later if it doesn't come to light at construction and sea trials. Even if Uncle Sam doesn't ge to learn from them, or even is not bothered by them, there is still the likelihood of the builders themselves offering the option as a sweetner to the deal to the next buyer, or that the RAN will see the issues and adjust their capability requirements to fit.

This has not been the case in the past for a lot of countries from purchasing a lot of hardware, but recently there has been a huge amount of corporate intelligence being generated given the current climate.

But in the long run, the shipbuilders aren't going to roll up to the bidding with a completely immobile design philosophy. On the "build it and they will come" marketing values, you need to have a marketable product; to have a marketable product it has to do what the customers need. The RAN just need to make sure they explicitly state all requirements. However as an interim answer, the modular design is supposed to make internal retrofitting easier in some respects*. (*actual results may vary)

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@Alexsa:

Further to what AGRA has posted, the type of capability it offers is perfect for us.

Distance wise, it just so happens that the vicinity of 5,000nm-7,000nm at somewhere between best speed and best economy is a pretty nice figure for the ADF (notwithstanding certification values).
With that range, we can go:
-To the Gulf from FBW;
-Anywhere up to Japan from FBE (further from Darwin), or;
-Do a one-stop in Hawaii and make it to US East Coast (or South America) with a reasonable reserve.

This would let us reach most places on the globe we would be reasonably required to attend. Africa, Europe and the continental Americas East Coast (in the case of the Panama and Suez canals being removed from the equation).

This is not taking into account the potential for further technological, development and design improvements to increase performance in the intervening time frame. I suspect by the time we are to replace the Tobruk we'll have a slightly better variant available to us, plus additional bidders from the other builders.

--

Of course, the real issue we people on the ground have at the moment is that we can't see into the future to what the requirements will be.

Certainly I'm not as worried about the issues of diminished capacity over a larger sealift ship - platforms such as C-17 are likely to be cited as a supplement, regardless of the inflexibility of the requirement of an airfield, mainly because that was the rationale for purchasing them.

Generally the idea of an amphibious operation may require speed over numbers in a lot of cases, and it is a huge humanitarian winner for responding to disasters and the like. You can put a floating hospital, secure troops, supplies and heavy equipment ashore faster than just about anything short of a large airlift, and to anywhere that there is sufficient channel clearance instead of relying on airfields.

I'm not bashing the idea of a larger sealift ship, as they do have their place, but it is just as likely that if another heavy sea lift vessel is requested that the answer will be in the form of the questions: "Then why do we have LHD's? Aren't they for moving large numbers of troops and vehicles around?", as the distinction may not be as obvious to those who write the cheques.

The flexibility and speed of a fast JHSV-style asset makes:
The Army happy (they hate being cooped up on ships),
The Navy happy (as they get the cargo there and back quicker) and
The end-customer a whole lot happier (either the CADF in the case of combat, or the recipient country in humanitarian/support operations)
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
Its a tough call.

Both the large RoRo and the Cats have pluses and minuses. It really depends on the theater your operating in and what works. I have a feeling the Cats will be able to deploy in more locations, quicker. Then again would you stick them in unescorted? Then again with the slow speed of the LHD being <20 kts loaded, something that can respond fast would be useful.

The cats support local industry, and its a industry that holds real promise. I suppose its at the stage where its a bit wait and see whats avalible and what we really need.

Maybe a 3rd LHD would lessen the need for a RoRo, and give the niche the Cats need to exist.
 

McTaff

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
To reply to StingrayOZ, I'd be comfortable sending them unescorted once the initial stages are played out. During transit, the high speed and ability to 'go the long way' would prove a headache for submarine assets, and it'd be hard to pin them down without air superiority for a maritime fixed-wing asset interdiction. Once they approach the conflict area, you'd pick them up with escorts then. After they leave the conflict area, you'd open the throttles and evade as best you can. The current FFGUP would make a good escort if it was warranted, given that they have a decent capability to ward off most single axis threats. In the future, we'd have an even nicer basket of berries to pick an escort from, provided we have enough of the new Air Warfare assets.

Besides, there are sealift roles cats can't fulfill
The only two major limitations of the 'Cat that I am aware of are:

The issue of them requiring wharfage was touched on by myself, AGRA and alexsa - with two sides being presented. This is as much a limiting factor to a RoRo given that so many harbours in our potential area of deployment wouldn't allow the standard draft of the average laden RoRo. So you are effectively trading a shallower draft for more reliance on wharfage, and although I am not qualified to answer which is more limiting, I suspect the shallower draft would be a better option given that most of the time we would actually be sending these vessels to friendly controlled and sanitized ports / friendly countries. If it were a full scale amphibious assault this type of sealift would be kept well out of harms way during the opening stages of a campaign until a significant receiving capability (read: wharf) was under control. The old "beach 'em" heavy sealift is a really awesome way to reduce reliance on infrastructure (which could be disabled, not under friendly control, or even booby trapped) but LCH types can perform a limited transfer from LHD's for this. (as I mentioned in the earlier post, sometimes the people who write and sign the cheques for the shiny bits aren't quite up to speed on the difference.)

The other issue is a cargo versus speed one. You trade a slightly smaller carrying capacity for Speed-Response. If you already have the LHD's, speed is an all round winner (as I said, no substitute for being on time), not only on initial deployment, but for:
Rushing reinforcements,
Ensuring a fast, smooth troop rotation to and from the zone of operation during all stages,
Allows for a new capability to be placed at the front lines whenever a new need arises.

At twice the speed of the average RoRo, the 'Cat cannot be beat in this area (except as previously mentioned by C-17, and that places reliance on servicable airfields and the availablity of tankers and aviation fuels at turnaround.)

Seems to me that in both cases it is a case of Tradeoff A for Capability B. The ADF will need to decide which is more important than the other, and it is no secret which one little ol' me thinks is more important. Once again, I may extol the virtues of the 'Cat, and I would prefer to see them in service, but roles/requirements are always the deciding factor, and this is where the proof of the pudding will be. (Mmm. Now I want pudding...)
 
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gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
For those with access, there is some interesting commentary in the latest issue of USNI Proceedings re the LCS/HSV/JHSV options - written by the current XO of HSV2.

My hard copy arrived today, - I don't think online access is available yet.
 

alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
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Rather that try to quote from previous post I will just make gental comment otherwise the post become unmanageble. It is my veiw the HSC concnept is perfect to intertheater tranport over intermediate distances in mild conditions providng rapid deployment of a large number of troops and 'some' equipment. A vessel based on the INCAT 112m seaframe will be challenged over longer distances and wil suffer high operating cost for small uplift potential.

http://www.incat.com.au/uploaded/18/63264_88112mwpc-ropax-onepage-0.doc

http://www.incat.com.au/fleet.cgi?articleID=63264#

The base INCAT 112m vessel is still a day ferry with a maximum DWT cpacity of 1500 tonnes. DWT includes fuel, liquids, provisions, stores and cargo (men and machines). the 1500 tonne DWT can only be achieved at reduced speeds but the realisitic max DWT is between 500 and 1000 tonnes depending on voyage duration. Even 1500 tonnes is apultry in the grand sceme of things given that fuel and water will eat into this total. The military versionis based on the same hull format hence the DWT will not increase, if anything the additional structure for the helo deck will force it down. Depending on the helecopters tob e carried thes will also eat away at your DWT before you consider their fuel and equipment.

The base ferry version is not equiped for long duration transport of troops (see the attached GA) being equiped wiht seating only and minimal galley facilities. For long durations voyages sleeping facilites, improved satiary facilties and dining and recreational facilties will be requried (RO units etc). Not to mention magazine and starge for small arms and ammuntition. Again this will eat into the DWT and if the vessel is to be built to SOLAS standards you are going to have a bit fo fun wiht structural fire protection and LSA. No adminstration would accept longs distance voayges reliant solely of MES for a commercial vessel (in other words you are goain to have to commission it).

In so far as port access is concerned, I noted a draft of 8m is mentioned. this is quite deep for many RO PAX vessels as an example and standard 200m RAIL RO-PX (these have a lower DWT than the pure RO-PAX due to structure and seems to be repreentative of something that coudl carry MBTs) with a 21 knot service speed and a real DWT of 8000 tonnes (8 times greater than the 112m INCAT which is not 'slightly smaller') has a draft of 6.2m. This wouel allow the carraige of 600 troops and all heavy equipement on a vessel fitted with the necesary facilites for both the care and safety of the troops.

http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/skane/

If you want speed have a look at Superfast III at 29.5 knots wiht a DWT of 5600 tonnes with max PAX (of which 750 can be carried in cabins with full facilites inaddition to up to 140 crew also in cabins) of 1400 with fully SOLAS compliant FFE and LSA.

http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/superfast/

At the top of the scale there are RO-PAX ferries wiht a 22knot service speed at 85%MER wiht a DWT capcity of about 8800 tonnes with over 1300 passengers in cabins and all on a draft of 6.05m.

http://www.ship-technology.com/projects/hull/specs.html

These are the facilities requred for long distance transport. You are paying quite a premium in both operating costs and uplift for the high speed options with a much lower DWT for what is effectively a 5 knot increase over somehgin like the Superfast design.

For an intertheater voayge where troops can be sat and run at close to max sustained speed (40knots with a DWT of 1000 tonnes at 100%MER without T-foil) with their gear then this systems has temednosus advantages. By the way the T-foil is you ride control. The vessel in its basic form is not desinged to supprot sustained operations (i.e humaitarian relief) as it is not even equipemd for the long term care of thoe it carries as passengers. To give it this facility again eats into DWT.

It should be ntoed that runnign engines at 100% of MER is going to eat into engine life and mean time between failures. Realistically youa re going to signficantly increase outages if you run continously in this mode. Most commencial vesels run at about 85% MER.

More to the point the weather limitation needs to be considered. Using the Pieson-Moskowitz Sea Spectrum as opposed to the Beaufort scale (this assumes the vessels are capable of withstanding the more rigorous limit which to my knowlegde is not the case and Beaufort is normally the measure) sea state 4 is a really nice day for most seafarers with a maximum significant height of 7.5 feet and a max swind speed of 20knots. INCAT claims to go into Sea state 5 but this does not mean yuou can run at the top end of sea state 5 which is 25knot winds and a significant wave height of 12 feet (lets be honest this is not much). Even if the vesel does run in these condition speed will be reduced to limit damage and becaused of issues such as tunnel slam which is an issue for multihull vessels in large swells (even wave piecers). The Austal 127m hull is more capble in this regard and is one of the few I could truly see running at close to max speed in sea state 5. By the way Pieson-Moskowitz Sea Spectrum is divided into 9 staes while the Beaufort wind scale is broken into 12. Normally Buefort wouel be used meaning the conditions are much more behign.

Given the HSV options being looked at will cost about 100 million before running costs are taken into account you are lookingat 400million USD for 4 without spares and stores. These burn in excess of 6 tonnes per hour of MGO at about $710 per tonne. This is a fuel burn in the order of $4260 per hour (total of 144 tonnes per day at 6tonnes per hour) for an uptlift of 1000 tonnes at 100% of MER. The econmocis are very poor for long distance travel noting the engine mainteance issues. A 22knot RO-PAX burns IFO180 and is likley to burn less per day thatn the HSV with an uplift int he order of 8000 tonnes for a vesle taht is equiped to supprot a 1000 PAX (safey an comfort) over long distances. for long distance transport I woul hate to be cooped up in a HSV for 5 to 8 days (provide the weather did not turn nasty).

If our theater uplift is only for Timor or other local needs then a HSV is very effecive in moveing troopps fast for less cost ahtn aircraft. Over long distsnces the econmocis and risk doen't seem to warraent it. to be bluntly hones if we need to move troops to a local area fast we can charter a HSV from INCAT (aka HMAS Jervis Bay) rather than buy and maintain it.
 

FutureTank

Banned Member
selection of auxiliary sealift support vessel for LAS (LHD)

Thank you for that analysis alexsa.

In case anyone doesn't have it, the Pierson - Moskowitz Sea Spectrum vs Beaufort Force comparison is found here
http://www.seakayak.ws/kayak/kayak.nsf/NavigationList/NT003E2ED2

It seems HSV is really the option for close-to-national waters deployments, and LAS (LHD) ships are really intended for expeditionary missions that suggest a further reach intended by the strategic outlook of the ADF.
 

AGRA

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
The point I’ve consistently trying to make is not to compare a single 112mm WPC with a a single much larger RO-RO. But to compare a cost equivalent (in both acquisition and crewing) of a the 112mm WPC to a larger RO-RO. 100m is way in excess of what INCAT are charging for such boats, which come in at half that price. The ratio of such an equivalency as at least three 112m WPCs for each >120m RO-RO. Then you also have to factor in speed.

Now for any regional scenario (say Darwin out to Vietnam) the ‘3 to 1’ 112m WPC offers significant advantages in cargo offload to conventional RO-ROs. While fuel burns will be higher this is not a commercial sustained service but an emergency contingent service. The advantages of having offload in shallow ports and 500-1,000 tonnes arriving each day (making life much easier for the terminal operation and much less military risk) are worth the extra fuel burden at the MOB (Darwin) which can handle it anyway.

As for trips to the Middle East they are few and far between. 500 tonnes once a year is about right and can easily be handled by the WPCs.

The argument that we can just lease a WPC from INCAT when troubles arrises could also be applied to a RO-RO. Like the Spirits of Tasmania. The diusadvantage of both arguments is arranging the lease in time – we had six months warning on East Timor, training the crews (one boat is easy, six is hard) and developing operational tactics, training exercises, etc. The advantages of a WPC in peacetime and wartime is they can also be used for other missions, like minehunting support, helicopter deck training, SO insertion/extraction, etc, etc
 
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alexsa

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The point I’ve consistently trying to make is not to compare a single 112mm WPC with a a single much larger RO-RO. But to compare a cost equivalent (in both acquisition and crewing) of a the 112mm WPC to a larger RO-RO. 100m is way in excess of what INCAT are charging for such boats, which come in at half that price. The ratio of such an equivalency as at least three 112m WPCs for ever >120m RO-RO. Then you also have to factor in speed.

Now for any regional scenario (say Darwin out to Vietnam) the ‘3 to 1’ 112m WPC offers significant advantages in cargo offload to conventional RO-ROs. While fuel burns will be higher this is not a commercial sustained service but an emergency contingent service. The advantages of having offload in shallow ports and 500-1,000 tonnes arriving each day (making life much easier for the terminal operation and much less military risk) are worth the extra fuel burden at the MOB (Darwin) which can handle it anyway.

As for trips to the Middle East they are few and far between. 500 tonnes once a year is about right and can easily be handled by the WPCs.

The argument that we can just lease a WPC from INCAT when troubles arrises could also be applied to a RO-RO. Like the Spirits of Tasmania. The diusadvantage of both arguments is arranging the lease in time – we had six months warning on East Timor, training the crews (one boat is easy, six is hard) and developing operational tactics, training exercises, etc. The advantages of a WPC in peacetime and wartime is they can also be used for other missions, like minehunting support, helicopter deck training, SO insertion/extraction, etc, etc
I have no issue wiht Darwin to Timor or Solomons but beyond that you are not going to get 1000tonnes each day. Even to local areas youa re not going to get 1000 tonnes because fuel burn, ships stores, troop weight (including gear) comes of DWT and the effective DWT is only 1000 tonnes with no ride control and running at 100% of MER. It is worht noting that with a 6.5m draft a RO-Ro will delever 8 times the quantitiy in just under 2 days that the HSC delviers in 1. Withe three HSC runnign giving yoju a theoretical DWT of 1000 tonnes each then you have 3000 tonnes per day or 6000 tonnes per each two day period wher a sincle RO-RO will do 8000 tonnes in thesame period at a fraction of the cost. Just on fuel burn say 100 tones per day of IFO for the RO-RO ($41700 USD per day for $83400 USD for the 8000 tonne uplift delivered) comapred to 144 tones per day for three HSV of MGO ($306720 US per day for a 3000 tonne uplift delivered). In fact it will cost you $817920 USD in fuel to delivere the same capacity as a RO-RO (8000 tonnes) and one extra day for two fo the vessels.

The HSV is increadibly useful when used in lieu of air transport for short haul (i.e. you don't need beds and extensive domestic facilities) as it cost sless while taking a bit more time. The economies of scale are very poor comared to convetions ships where the aim is uplift. don't forget if we cut the speed more (say 18knots) we can get a larger conventional vesel (no real change in draft) with an uplift 10000 to 15000 tonnes.

I would question the cost difference if you are going to equipe these vessel for sustained operations to place as far as Vietnam (In other words they will need cabins and domestic faciltities and the approapriate strucutral fire protection). A 180m pure car carrier capable of 21 knots with a DWT in the order of 15000 tonnes will only set you back 80 million USD when built in a commercial yard

The distance from Darwing to Saigon is 2151nm. If you can sustain 40knots (allowing a DWT of 1000 tonnes at 100%MER) this will take 2 days 5.7 houirs not allow anay time for slow pasages into and out of port and for laod and discharge. So lets say three days. I doubt you will want ot 'sit' you troops for this time so suggest accomodation will be required. given the applicaionmof commencial safety standard (SOLAS) by defence the cost of fitting accomodation to either a modified RO-RO or a modified 112m HSV design will be the same. In fact if you go full SOPLAS it is laikely to be more for the HSV because of the need for additional insulation to meet structional fire protection standards. In addition there will be an addition burdent if you try an keep mass down using composites and other materials givne the limtied DWT of the basic design.

The fuel burn wiht no reserve from Darwin to Saigon will be in the order of 322 tonnes and this will also come of your DWT. In addition:

1.If you are carrying even 750 troops at an average mass of 85kg per head (not including their kit) thats another 63 tonnes.

2.Two Seahawks (withoug serving equipement or ather spares but will full fuel) will come in at 40tonnes.

3.The ship has a standard potable water stoarge of 10tonnes which would be woefully inadeqaute for 750 troops for a day and as such bigger tankage and large RO untis will need to be fitted. Allowing only 50 litres per head for washing, drinking, cooking and laundry means a usage of 37.5 tonnes per day of water. consumptionis likely to be in the order of 100 litres per head. Again this all comes of deadweight.

4. Food (for the voyage), ammunation, personal kit all have to be subtracted.

Allthis comes of DWT.

The only big advantage for the HSV may be delivery time as INCAT are not exactly flush with orders at this point in time. Yards for commecial vesels asre pretyhy full as are Austal.

Looking athe proposal put to the US bu INCAT it would appear to be based on optmistic figures and it is noted this carries no troops. It is noted that the 'ralaist DWT is quoted as 1000 tonnes but I will again point out that this based on 40knots at 100%MER. Any bad weather over hte 8221 and 11666nm journey will slow the vesel down and increase fuel useage 9notng we are only allowing for force 4 and maybe into 5). Even wiht this the ship needs to UNREP twic for the longer voyage because of fuel burn. Looking at the shorter journey the vesel will burn 1265 tonnes of MGO at 6 tonnes per hour @ 39knots (no reserves) for the voyage. Given the differnet MER figures in the proposal to the US lLets be very kind and say 5 tonnes per hour given 1054 tonnes (or USD748321 worth) then the vesel willneed to carry in the order of 500 to 550 tonnes of fuel (no reserves) given there is a singel UNREP in this voyage, Again lest be kind and say the reamining DWT is now 500tonnes the 26 aircraft laoded will themselves take up about 400tonnes (noting ther are 12H53s) before we look at any other cargo and other ships consumables (i.e lubes, water, stores, food) not to mention serving equipement for the helos or their fuel

The quoted DWT for the vessel is in the order of 1400 tonnes but it is worht noting the little footnote about the "available operationsal DWT being 'approxaiantely 1000 tonnes on slide 11. It is also ntoed taht the DWT figures for the standard 112m ferry and the helc transproter have not changed despite the fact structure will need to change to support the helo deck ans well as tankage for fuel. The ferry structre is mimimum wieght and it woudl be reasonable to expect weignt increased onthe military version noting the changes.

Finally these are still aluminium HSV craft and this has implications. Operations of commercial HSC are limteid to being on certain routes within 8 hours of a port of refuge at operational sped (for cargo, 4 hours for PAX) and this is done for a very good reason givne their structure and arrangment.
 

RubiconNZ

The Wanderer
On a side note the Navy News is in a new format allowing readers to view the entire publication online,
the other services have something similar it can be read here.
It's quite a good format once you get used to it, I was wondering why it was late this fortnight...
 
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