Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[FutureTank]

Success was built at Cockatoo Island naval dockyard.

HMAS Tobruk I was built at the Cockatoo Island in 1947.

From history of the dockyards (I wonder what the South Koreans were doing in 1964 for ship-building)

"In 1964 the Empress of Australia (renamed Royal Pacific) is launched, being the largest roll-on roll-off cargo ship in the world. This ships' construction was notable as it was built using a modular system, where sections of the superstructure, up to 60 tons in weight, were assembled in the plate yards and fitted out with equipment, then raised into position in the hull. This greatly speeded up completion of the vessel and modular construction has now been adopted throughout the ship building industry."

It had a gross tonage of 12,037 tons and was 445 feet in length, and was the largest vessel of this type in the world when built.

 

[barra]

HMAS Tobruk I was built at the Cockatoo Island in 1947.

And the current HMAS Tobruk was built at Carrington Slipways in Newcastle in the early 80's. I don't think the floating dock in Newcastle is big enough to take one of the future LHD's. Looks like Newcastle is out of the large shipbuilding game for good. Property developer's are to busy building high rise units on Newcastles waterfront these days. The best we could hope to do these days is build small ships, like the Huons, or modules of larger ones.


Hooroo

 

[icelord]

. The Henderson CUF does not have a dry dock but is a hardstand with a new floating dock able to lift ships to the hardstand. The new dock is being built in Vietnam and at Henderson by Strategic Marine. It will only be able to transfer ships of 3,500 tonnes size to the hardstand but can lift up 12,000 tonnes from the sea for work.

However of course the LHDs will be maintained at the Captain Cook graving dock at Garden Island. Or perhaps at the commercial dry docks in Newcastle and Brisbane.

The replacement of Success and Sirius is under projct Sea 1654 (?) and is seperate to the ADAS project JP 2048. The Navy's preferred hull design for the Sea 1654 is the US Navy's 'Lewis and Clark' ship

Success was built at Cockatoo Island naval dockyard

:tomato my bad, got them mixed up. But i still doubt that Garden island would be used for construction, too long to have main dry dock out of action while construction is taking place.

Forgacs-Tomago built the Tobruk originally many yrs ago, but i doubt they could do a ship of this size, especially if Lewis and clark is design being looked at.
The LHDs would fit at Forgacs dry dock quite easily, and have defence contracts for LPA maintanence as is.

 

[FutureTank]

I don't think the floating dock in Newcastle is big enough to take one of the future LHD's.
Hooroo

Barra, I think I have everyone confused.
I'm not suggesting building the LHDs (LAS), but rather the smaller sealift auxiliary vessel to replace the role HMAS Success/Tobruk fulfill when that is replaced by the Canberra class. Maybe a multi-role logistic vessel rather then a tanker.

Pardon my ignorance, but are all maintenance and upgrade works must be carried out at the Garden Island? Can the graving dock be used for construction also? If the ship is built in sections (as is the practice now), then the dock would only be required for final assembly, so a relatively short time?

 

[icelord]

And the current HMAS Tobruk was built at Carrington Slipways in Newcastle in the early 80's. I don't think the floating dock in Newcastle is big enough to take one of the future LHD's. Looks like Newcastle is out of the large shipbuilding game for good. Property developer's are to busy building high rise units on Newcastles waterfront these days. The best we could hope to do these days is build small ships, like the Huons, or modules of larger ones.


Hooroo

Forgacs does manage to repair coal ships and large ferrys-similar to the HMNZS Cantubury in size. It might be a squeeze, but evaluations would be looked at, see if i can get a hold of a mate at forgacs to find out bout LHD.

Hell at the rate property developers are going with the likes of lego land along the harbour, i would'nt be surprised if old BHP site was moved away from commerical work, like the loss of the car contract(thanks Iemma!) and made into some park or residential area, even with the chemicals in the ground, plus newies ship construction is moving more towards billioniare toyboats then Navy work.

 

[icelord]

Barra, I think I have everyone confused.
I'm not suggesting building the LHDs (LAS), but rather the smaller sealift auxiliary vessel to replace the role HMAS Success/Tobruk fulfill when that is replaced by the Canberra class. Maybe a multi-role logistic vessel rather then a tanker.

we have two lines of thought here, one, the Aux to replace success construction and two, the maintanence work on the LHD.The LHD hulls will be built in spain and shipped to Tenix in melbourne for fitout.

JP 2048 Phase 4 - Amphibious Deployment and Sustainment Capability
Project Overview
The Defence White Paper 2000 outlined the intention to replace the Landing Ship HMAS TOBRUK when it reaches the end of its service life in 2010, and to program the replacement of HMA Ships MANOORA and KANIMBLA in 2015. In addition the Government plans to replace the capability inherent in the fleet of 15 medium landing craft and six heavy landing craft.

JP 2048 seeks to replace the capability of the current range of ADF amphibious platforms. Phase 4A will replace the Heavy Landing Ship HMAS Tobruk with a larger amphibious vessel (LHD) with a year of decision of 2004/05 and in-service date of 2010/12. Phase 4B will replace one of the two LPA’s either HMAS Manoora or Kanimbla with a second LHD by 2012/14. Phase 4C will replace the remaining LPA with a SeaLift capability by 2016/18.

The Project received First Pass Approval in August 2005 and is currently conducting a Design Development Activity (DDA) with overseas designers. The DDA is expected to be completed by April 2006. It is intended that a Request for Tender will be released to Australian shipbuilders around April 2006 leading to selection of a preferred tenderer about 12 months later.
http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/msd/jp2048/jp2048ph4.cfm

Lets clarify, HMAS Tobruk will be replaced by HMAS Canberra, then HMAS Adelaide will replace 1 LPA, with the 2nd to be replaced by a sealift ship in 2016-18.
The part regarding the Medium and Heavy landing craft has me, is this why speculation is on the USN/USMC LCU program and its compatability with the JP2048

SEA 1654 – Replacement of Afloat Support Capability
Project Overview
This project seeks to replace the existing Royal Australian Navy (RAN) afloat support capability for maritime operations. HMAS WESTRALIA and HMAS SUCCESS provide the current afloat support capability. The Defence White Paper clearly articulates the Government’s requirement to replace the existing afloat support capability. The Phase 2A will replace HMAS WESTRALIA with a commercial second hand double hull Auxiliary Oiler (AO), which can be modified in Australia by 2006/07. The Phase 2B will provide a new oiler as the HMAS WESTRALIA replacement reaches the end of its life and will comply with impending international conventions and regulations governing maritime hull design by 2018/20. Phase 3 will replace HMAS SUCCESS with a purpose built support ship when it reaches end of service life in around 2015.
http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/lsp/Maritime_Operations.cfm

Pardon my ignorance, but are all maintenance and upgrade works must be carried out at the Garden Island? Can the graving dock be used for construction also? If the ship is built in sections (as is the practice now), then the dock would only be required for final assembly, so a relatively short time

There are around 4 dry docks for repair in Australia.
while construction is possible,if i recall the dock at Garden island is owned by Tenix and would need to be selected tender for the work to be done there.

 

[alexsa]

Last ship built at Garden Island was the Success. The set up would be substantial, its more used for upgrades such as the current FFG program. I think perth is clamming for a larger Infrastructure, unsure as to whether they want or have a dry dock for an LHD sized ship, anyone?

HMAS Sucess was built at Cockatoo island. This facitility is now decommissioned by exists (albeit in poor condition).

Garden island and the assocaited Captain Cook dock is a repair/refit yard. BTW it had no problem taking HMAS Melbourne and other ships at the same time.

 

[icelord]

HMAS Sucess was built at Cockatoo island. This facitility is now decommissioned by exists (albeit in poor condition).

Garden island and the assocaited Captain Cook dock is a repair/refit yard. BTW it had no problem taking HMAS Melbourne and other ships at the same time.

please refer to tomato in the face smiley.
Is cockatoo the one where music gigs and events are being held, or is that another Ex-navy island in the harbour

 

[alexsa]

There are around 4 dry docks for repair in Australia.
while construction is possible,if i recall the dock at Garden island is owned by Tenix and would need to be selected tender for the work to be done there.

Garden Island is owned by the government and leased to ADI (now Thales). It can be returned to government control very quickly.
The Capatain Cook dock is 345m long and has a width of 45m.

Tenix own Williamstown dockyard. 2 Building ways suppporting up to 6000 tonnes and a graving dock for 145m. They also have the Henderson facitilty they use which is capable of lifting an ANZAC. The AMC facility is due to be upgrade wiht a new floating dock of 100m.

In addition to ths we have Forgacs in Newcastle and the Cairncross dock (the latter can take panamax size vessels ... 85000 tonnes or there abouts). The Newacatle facility has an uplift of about 45000 tonnes but only 29.5m in max beam.

Cockatoo lsland is decomissioned but had building ways for up to 25000 tonnes and two graving docks.

The ASC facility uses a syncolift capable of lifting the collins Class. The facilities there are to be upgrade to the AWD.

In effect there are six large or largish repair facilities in Australia at the moment.

 

[alexsa]

please refer to tomato in the face smiley.
Is cockatoo the one where music gigs and events are being held, or is that another Ex-navy island in the harbour

Thats the one. Damn pity too as the building ways were a good size. The facility has been really let go but the as far as i understand docks could be fixed (at cost) as the main structure is alright (casions and pumps are a different issues). All the cranes are completely ruined as far as I know and the buildings have been let go. I heard the SRF roof leaks and that facitlity is in very poor shape.

The location of the yard is an issue and I have doubts it could be restarted in the currrent eco centric environment even if the money and motivation was there.

 

[icelord]

Thats the one. Damn pity too as the building ways were a good size. The facility has been really let go but the as far as i understand docks could be fixed (at cost) as the main structure is alright (casions and pumps are a different issues). All the cranes are completely ruined as far as I know and the buildings have been let go. I heard the SRF roof leaks and that facitlity is in very poor shape.

The location of the yard is an issue and I have doubts it could be restarted in the currrent eco centric environment even if the money and motivation was there.

No real need to though, with the 6(i stand corrected) then should be right atm, plus Sydney is no longer a "working harbour". i'm sure the new shore residents would'nt appreciate construction out the front of their view, heaven forbid!
I would'nt see Success replacement being built here. Would it lead to a strain on the current projects AWD>LHD if it were built here? pure speculation, too many cons to the idea such as money spent setting up for one ship.
As for the enviro tag, i'm surprised they let people wonder aimlessly around, it may be closed normally, but at events it could be dangerous if u stumble into the wrong place. Even with clean up they would still miss things.

 

[KiwiRob]

I've looked at Garden Island on Google Earth and can't see where the drydock is?

 

[AGRA]

Thales proposed consolidating the LHDs at Garden Island with their unsuccessful LHD bid. As for the "sealift capability" there are so many options available to defence at the moment that discussing build strategies is widely unrealistic. For example the INCAT or AUSTAL fast cats may be the sealift capability or a Korean built RO-RO or a monohull ferry like the RNZN's Canterbury.

In addition it is also unlikely the new AORs will be built in Australia. For the same reason the LHD domestic build was rejected. However there may be a construction sharing strategy like that with the LHDs.

 

[icelord]

I've looked at Garden Island on Google Earth and can't see where the drydock is?

notice how garden ISLAND is not an actual island anymore...

 

[barra]

Barra, I think I have everyone confused.

I wasn't confused FT, I was only referring to refit/maintenance work in the floating dock. One of the LPA's is in the floating dock at the moment and it pretty well fills it up. It may be able to lift 45,000 tonnes but the length and breadth of an LHD may be a different matter.

Hooroo.

 

[FutureTank]

I've looked at Garden Island on Google Earth and can't see where the drydock is?

Here http://www.gardenisland.info/1-03-010.html is a map

 

[icelord]

HMAS Manoora,just finished up. out last night and for an old girl she still looks good lit up of a night

 

[FutureTank]

I wasn't confused FT, I was only referring to refit/maintenance work in the floating dock. One of the LPA's is in the floating dock at the moment and it pretty well fills it up. It may be able to lift 45,000 tonnes but the length and breadth of an LHD may be a different matter.

Hooroo.

Ok, well I'm suggesting the use for SEA 1654 – Replacement of Afloat Support Capability

 

[barra]

HMAS Manoora,just finished up. out last night and for an old girl she still looks good lit up of a night

Yes, Manoora and Kanimbla have spent plenty of time in Newie over the years. Certainly took a long time to modify and refit them after they came out from the States. I have heard the amount of money we spent buying/fixing them we could have got new build ships. The USN probably couldn't believe their luck when they offloaded those rust buckets on us!!

Hooroo

 

[icelord]

Yes, Manoora and Kanimbla have spent plenty of time in Newie over the years. Certainly took a long time to modify and refit them after they came out from the States. I have heard the amount of money we spent buying/fixing them we could have got new build ships. The USN probably couldn't believe their luck when they offloaded those rust buckets on us!!

Hooroo

They both were $200 Million over budget and were delayed by 4 years...thanks bomber beazley!