The Secretive Andaman Islands.

[sashikanth]

India cites security concerns and a desire to protect endangered aboriginal tribes from outside influence as reasons for not allowing visitors to many parts of the island chain.

Some islands are off limits even to Indian citizens.

Foothold

Why do the Andamans attract such a policy?

One reason given is the need to protect the aboriginal tribes on the islands from outside influence.

But the Andaman and Nicobar Islands, more than 1,200km (750 miles) from the mainland, are also strategically located.

Their southernmost point is just 150km from Indonesia's Sumatra and their northernmost fewer than 50km from the Coco islands controlled by Burma

In effect, they give India a foothold in south-east Asia.

"The Andaman and Nicobar Islands are crucially located, offering a strategic view over the shipping traffic between the gulf and the Malacca straits," says Commodore C Uday Bhaskar of the Delhi-based Institute for Defence Studies and Analyses.

The location suits India's grand ambition of becoming a regional naval power capable of extended operations beyond the range of shore-based support.

The Andamans' natural harbours and coral reefs offer perfect locations for ships and submarines.


It is a Cold War mentality. India is sensitive about its military installations in the Andamans
Suba Chandran,
defence analyst

Despite opposition from Pakistan, the Andaman and Nicobar Islands became part of India when the British left the subcontinent over five decades ago.

But the Andamans remained away from public glare as the government developed the mainland.

The strategic importance of the islands was realised during India's 1971 war with Pakistan, when the Indian navy used them as a base to blockade and attack the naval bases and ships of what was then east Pakistan, now Bangladesh.

In the following years, more Indian naval assets were added and air bases were built.

When the islands developed, more people from mainland India settled there.

Integrated command

But while India realised the islands' strategic importance, defence cuts and unfavourable economic conditions in the early 1990s dogged military development.

Air force base on Car Nicobar
The air base on Car Nicobar is the only clear military damage

But in the late 1990s, the then-ruling Bharatiya Janata Party-led coalition diverted more resources to bolster India's military capability.

In 2001, India established an Integrated Services Command of army, navy, air force and coast guard in the Andamans.

With the new set up, India aims to control maritime trade activities in the region and counter sea-borne terrorism and piracy.

There have also been media reports that some air and sea assets of India's Strategic Nuclear Forces Command would be placed in the region.

But veteran Indian nuclear affairs analyst, K Subramanyam, says: "Nobody will place their strategic assets in a remote place like the Andamans as they would become an easy target."

With so much military and strategic significance, it is not surprising that Indian officials are wary of foreign aid agencies in the Andamans.

Suba Chandran, a defence analyst at the Delhi-based Institute of Peace and Conflict Studies, says: "It is a Cold War mentality. India is sensitive about its military installations in the Andamans."

Other than damage to the Car Nicobar air base, it is unclear whether the navy or air force suffered major tsunami losses here.

However, nature's fury could force Indian military planners to rethink future expansion plans in the islands.

LINK:http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4174635.stm

Personally, as an indian,the andaman islands have been very facinating for me.The 'Kaala Paani' jail in the city of port blair are famous for its grusome tales of the plight of freedom fighters.I have been fortunate enough to visit these islands.I can say that it is basically a defence base.Port blair is out and out a naval base with scores of cost guard ships and many out of the bound jettys.A dry dock is situated at port blair where war ships are repaired and these is an army base as well in port blair.It is as beautiful as heaven out there in these islands.Some of the places that i visited in andaman islands are out of bound for foreigners.I learned there is a huge air base in great nicobar (one of the nicobar islands) and i wanted to visit the islands but i was refused permission.Even indian civlians are not allowed to be on those islands!!!!
I know that these islands are statergically important for india,about 750 miles from indian mainland and just150 miles from burma,its more like an indian overseas base.But, what is that makes the indian government so sensitive towards these islands??

 

[funtz]

i know that place is awesome, the water is so clear, you can do all of that scuba diving etc.etc. at 80% cheaper rates than Maldives, and the best part is it is very similar to the Maldives in terms of beauty, only bigger and much much cheaper, it was such a tragedy that tsunami.
The people on many islands are very sensitive about interacting with outside cultures, many tribals although small in number respect the way of life they follow and wish not to be disturbed, those who want to interact generally do so at a pace of their choice, it is their wish, they must not be forced and the government recognizes that.

the air force base is just starting operations after the tsunami and as the Chinese have a listening post in that island that we practically gifted to Myanmar "coco island" i think, the Chinese/Myanmar combo have made sure that Indian air force, navy and army always keep a strong presence there.

http://www.defenceindia.com/11-apr-2k5/news21.html

Protected by a tsunami-resistant wall, the Indian Air Force base here is on its way to becoming a Diego Garcia-like base of strategic importance.

As defence officials said, the air base, post tsunami, is not about force-structure, meaning the stationing of large number of top-of-the-line fighter aircraft, but infrastructure. This means the base will have the capacity to be used for large-scale operations whenever necessary. Like Diego Garcia, the US base in the Indian Ocean, Car Nicobar will not have many strike elements permanently.

Indian defence planners have long recognised the growing potential of the Andamans as a strategic base. It is close to the important sea-lanes that take vast amounts of oil to East Asia through the Malacca Straits and the South-east Asian countries and is only around 45 km from the Myanmarese Cocos Islands where the Chinese have a presence.

During the briefing, Lt-Gen. Aditya Singh, the unified command chief, pointed out that the “USA has a skeleton base in Diego Garcia.”

After the 26 December tsunami tragedy, the current air exercises, involving two Sukhoi-30s and four Jaguars, flown in from the mainland, is a sign that the base is combat-worthy once again. Air Force Chief, Air Chief Marshal Shashi Tyagi, said it was a “remarkable effort”. The Air Chief Marshal complimented the base officials for “a very good reconstruction job,” which also means shifting structures from the beach front to safer higher grounds in the island.

Asked about the area’s strategic importance, he said the IAF has had a presence here for years and there was no plan to have permanent squadrons of fighters, but options would be kept open.

I say throw in a few missile silos, jags, mig 29s, bisons a very strong radar keeping an eye on every thing
A stationed carrier battle group in the near future(2017) with a few components of a ballistic missile defense with land reclamation and tsunami breaking walls/barriers etc. etc. will really upset those string of pearls floating around.
Very unlikely though, might start a new arms race, will be fun to see that.

 

[Manfred2]

i think, the Chinese/Myanmar combo have made sure that Indian air force, navy and army always keep a strong presence there.

Absolutley right. The Island chain in one of the best obstacles to the "String of pearls" that China is trying to build to the Persian Gulf. I just hope that they are not thinking in purely defensive terms, this time.

 

[su-30mki]

A Detailed Evaluation.

I will try to present a detailed evaluation as to how these islands are very crutial not only for the indian stertegic hold but also to the power balance of asia.
The andaman islands holds a very crucial sea link from the middle east to most parts of asia.The sea lanes carry a major comodity for asia---"OIL"-----,,the most crucial comodity in case of war.Usually there are reserves for nations,but that can last for only a few days,therefore oil is required to keep the machines running.
I will like to present two maps to explain my point

MAP-A:http://www.heartsong3.com/Images 2003/MapIndianOceanRoute.jpg

We can see the sea lanes from the middle east that has to pass through the arabian sea through 1)Lakshdweeep islands--Under indian control and secondly through the andaman islands.So, in case of India at wa with any asian country, it simply has to setup a blockade at either the lakshadweep islands of the andaman islands to cut off the crucial fuel supply and that will be a death punch.
secondly,
MAP-B:
http://www.tamilnation.org/intframe...ane_with_rich_living_and_non-living_resources

Here you will see the placement of the andaman and nicobar islands.A huge naval fleet is already present here with a backup of a big airforce base at nicobar island.Incase a blockade is set up but the indian authorities, the other country will be forces to take an alternative route that touches australia that would be very long and will buy them a lot of time.
Please feel free to express your opinion on this issue.

 

[funtz]

i Know man, all this has been well covered, there is a program on DD News, in which old Indian Generals, WCs, admirals etc. etc. come in and spill the information about all that has happened, unfortunately no one is watching.

The only problem was that before Kargil the coordination between different Intelligence agencies was minimal to the level of professional undermining something even prevalent in Indian industries, i just hope that things are better now.

There was military scenario analyzed where Myanmar under Chinese influence tries to take over the Islands in a Kargil type operation,This along with environment might be part of the reason behind why the coast guards and local police are hostile to fish traders from Myanmar selling/buying and interacting with the local population, do not be surprised if suddenly some fish traders and fishing boats from Myanmar mysteriously go missing around the islands.

I never knew that fishing was a large trade before i watched that program, they threw some interesting figures, they really know the things that they talk about.

That is the real reason behind why some areas in Andaman (which are so beautiful that i wish this did not happen) will never be made public.

This sucks because of all of this i am deprived of the most beautiful beaches, the most clear waters, in my own country, that and those environmentalists aint making things easier, however if this is what is required for national security and the environment its OK

 

[su-30mki]

i Know man, all this has been well covered, there is a program on DD News, in which old Indian Generals, WCs, admirals etc. etc. come in and spill the information about all that has happened, unfortunately no one is watching.

LTTE: there really are some interesting facts i cant talk about looks as if they still have contact with Indian intelligence services.

The only problem was that before Kargil the coordination between different Intelligence agencies was minimal to the level of professional undermining something even prevalent in Indian industries, i just hope that things are better now.

Did you know there is a military scenario analyzed by the Indian military where Myanmar under Chinese influence tries to take over the Islands in a Kargil type operation, The Indian military after kargil is so paranoid that they have already prepared for a detailed plan to deal with this, however it will never be made public, again the ex-generals spilled the beans ha ha ha. nfloorl:

This along with environment might be part of the reason behind why the coast guards and local police are hostile to fish traders from Myanmar selling/buying and interacting with the local population, do not be surprised if suddenly some fish traders and fishing boats from Myanmar mysteriously go missing around the islands.

I never knew that fishing was a large trade before i watched that program, they threw some interesting figures, they really know the things that they talk about.

That is the real reason behind why some areas in Andaman (which are so beautiful that i wish this did not happen) will never be made public.

This sucks because of all of this i am deprived of the most beautiful beaches, the most clear waters, in my own country, that and those environmentalists aint making things easier, however if this is what is required for national security and the environment its OK

I totally agree when you say that term "Sucks",, because that is the exact feeling that i felt when i wanted to visit Car Nicobar which has some of the most beautiful coral reefs (i heard better than maldives) and i was said i was not allowed to go there as there was an airforce base there

That aside, what are the aircrafts stationed there?

 

[funtz]

"During the briefing, Lt-Gen. Aditya Singh, the unified command chief, pointed out that the “USA has a skeleton base in Diego Garcia.”

"After the 26 December tsunami tragedy, the current air exercises, involving two Sukhoi-30s and four Jaguars, flown in from the mainland, is a sign that the base is combat-worthy once again."

"Asked about the area’s strategic importance, he said the IAF has had a presence here for years and there was no plan to have permanent squadrons of fighters, but options would be kept open."

I gave this above, It will be for the AF a skeleton base, every thing will be there, all the facilities, the men, etc. etc.
If push comes to shove with in 5 hours IAF will be there, i think thats why they have a bigger runway now (looked like it on the TV report), the IAF might need to bring in bigger birds.

The army, navy, cost guards will be there in strength, with local intelligence work load going to intelligence officers attached with the police, forest department, administration.

Quoting the Myanmar times here
India returns floundering fishermen to Myanmar
By Minh Zaw

MORE than 200 Myanmar fishermen who have been detained by Indian authorities in the past several years for sailing into India’s territorial waters were returned to Yangon on January 15.

http://www.mmtimes.com/no352/n010.htm
And this is not that recent, i wonder why there is littile coverage online on this thing.

It is a well known fact that a lot of fishermen are currently in India awaiting deportation, as it is a huge ocean with no clear boundaries marked, let us see how this thing plays out in the coming years, as they say better careful than sorry.

Will try to dig out something about the amount of arrests these days.

The trouble is on one hand the strategic problem is there of a possible China - Myanmar plan/tie up/stategy of a counter-balance, which very well might be just the fantasy of a few analysts, however can not be ignored, and on the other hand is the need to engage myanmar into constructive trade, Some balancing act for the Ministry of External affairs.

Its a complex world.

 

[su-30mki]

One thing, when i was there in the Andaman islands i heard from the local guide that people from myanmar come into the islands using speed boats and cutdown trees to collect firewood.The Indian authority needs to be careful.

 

[funtz]

Well its weird, they have plenty of forests in Myanmar, wy come all the way to Indian waters. Must be because no ones bothering.

However yes, These Islands need to be turned into absolute war machines according to my insignificant opinion.

As of now a diplomatic solution exists, that is why i like the IAF strategy, as explained above, a skeleton base with all the facilities installed, heavily guarded, ready to be converted into a strong platform.

 

[su-30mki]

One more interseting link i found about car nicoba on global security.

link:http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/india/car-nicobar.htm

Hey,I found an interesting arcticle regarding the indian airforce deployment in car nicobar.The tsunami had struck the andaman islands in december'05 and a few Jags were to be deployed there in Jan'06.There are reports of so-30mki's to be deployed there.

Take a look at this acticle from The Washington Times,

The Washington Times, 17 January 2005
India to relocate air force bases
Port Blair: Jan. 17: The Indian air force, worried about its installations on the tsunami-devastated Nicobar Islands, plans to
relocate some of them to the Indian mainland. Vice Admiral Raman Puri said that the air force is scouting for mainland areas
after the tsunami devastated some of its installations on Car Nicobar, the Indian Express reported Saturday. Recently the
Indian government, criticized for restricting aid agencies on the distressed islands, cited security concerns as one of the major
reasons for the restrictions. The location of the bases is advantageous because it gives India a strong defensive position in
Southeast Asia, the BBC reported Friday. The southernmost island is just 94 miles from Indonesia's Sumatra and the
northernmost fewer than 31 miles from the Coco Islands controlled by Burma.

You will love this link:http://www.ipcs.org/Jan_05_militaryAirforce.pdf

 

[gf0012-aust]

a skeleton base with all the facilities installed, heavily guarded, ready to be converted into a strong platform.

The Naval facilities are not exactly skeletal. Its a full blown deep water facility with an airstrip designed to take heavy long ranged aircraft.

As its the headquarters for the region, it would also be fully resourced. After all it handles all your skimmers as well as subs.

 

[funtz]

The Naval facilities are not exactly skeletal. Its a full blown deep water facility with an airstrip designed to take heavy long ranged aircraft.
As its the headquarters for the region, it would also be fully resourced. After all it handles all your skimmers as well as subs.

Only saw the AF Airstrip man, it came on the TV news and yes you are correct as i said above it looked kind of big even to my untrained eyes, wont know anything about the subs and ships probably get arrested if i go fan-boy with the navy, my friends are there in the forest department, thats about all my contacts go.

http://forest.and.nic.in/

 

[su-30mki]

One more very interesting thing that i forgot to share with you guys, i had a friend who worked there in the andaman islands (port blair), he works in the defence.We had gone to explore a mud valcano, some 200kms off port blair and i had found a very dence forest of mangrove trees.These trees tend to grow on water and form a thick bulky bush of some 'pines'.My friend told me that after India's nuclear testing of 90's there was tremendous pressure on India from the US and as we all know that santions were imposed.The US defence establishments were very closely tracking the movements of seveal big indian war ships and ins viraat in particular.And the Indian authorities had hid ins viraat in these mangrove forests during that time.On a closer look i found that this was very much possible due to the nature of the growth of plants.
I guess even now there might be something sensitive there:unknown

 

[gf0012-aust]

One more very interesting thing that i forgot to share with you guys, i had a friend who worked there in the andaman islands (port blair), he works in the defence.We had gone to explore a mud valcano, some 200kms off port blair and i had found a very dence forest of mangrove trees.These trees tend to grow on water and form a thick bulky bush of some 'pines'.My friend told me that after India's nuclear testing of 90's there was tremendous pressure on India from the US and as we all know that santions were imposed.The US defence establishments were very closely tracking the movements of seveal big indian war ships and ins viraat in particular.And the Indian authorities had hid ins viraat in these mangrove forests during that time.On a closer look i found that this was very much possible due to the nature of the growth of plants.
I guess even now there might be something sensitive there:unknown

Are you sure you've been near mangrove swamps? I have in Malaysia, Far North Queensland and the Northern Territory. I can assure you that if you know anything about mangroves is that they are a lateral shallow root system. There is no way that you could get large boats near them let alone hide in the mangrove system. A commander would run the risk of fouling up his props - and thats not a good thing for your career.

The whole reason why Port Blair went through its construction and reconstruction over the last 5 years is because its a fleet headquarters.

In addition how hard do you think it is for IR satellites to pick out ships stuck in the middle of small bays

The USN has been tracking PLAN subs that have been tracking IN subs (in fact thats what was in progress during the 2004 Tsunami when the PLAN almost lost a sub tracking an Indian asset).

Do you seriously think that a vessel the size of Viraat could escape detection by a nuke sub when that whole region is under satellite paths anyway (to watch the Straits and the Burmese).

Apart from that, Viraat wouldn't have been able to berth in Port Blair as the port hadn't been dredged then for deep draught vessels.

You probably need to tell your friend to stop telling you fairy stories - its not helping your credibility.

 

[funtz]

And the Indian authorities had hid ins viraat in these mangrove forests during that time.On a closer look i found that this was very much possible due to the nature of the growth of plants.
I guess even now there might be something sensitive there:unknown

Let us see what the Department of Forest and Environment (andaman and niobar) says.

Status of Mangroves of Andaman & Nicobar Islands
Total area under mangrove vegetation in India is 4827 sq.km. as per the latest estimate of the Forest Survey of India (1999 ). Out of this, 966 sq.kms. area of mangrove vegetation occur in Andaman & Nicobar Islands which means that one fifth of the country’s total mangroves occur in these islands. In Andaman district, area under mangroves is 929 sq.kms., while in Nicobar district mangroves occupy 37 sq.kms.

Area wise A & N islands are third in the country after W. Bengal and Gujarat, but as far as density and growth are concerned, mangroves of these islands are probably the best in the country.

The mangrove vegetation of these islands constitutes 9.4% of the land area or 10.85% of the total forest area. Mangroves occurring in these islands are mostly fringing the creeks, backwater and muddy shores.

Along the creeks the width ranges from 0.5 km. To 1 km.at places this salt tolerant community is found on rock shores subjected to tidal action and regular deposits of mud. Luxurient mangroves can be seen in Shoal Bay (South Andaman), Yerrata Jetty in Rangat (Middle Andamans) and in Austrin Creek (Mayabunder).

Source:
http://forest.and.nic.in/frst-mangroves1.htm

pssst: word to the wise, the department observes these things on a daily basis, you can get a copy of the exact depth and naure of the inland creeks (back waters) from the Ministry of Environment & Forests Paryavaran Bhavan, CGO Complex, Lodhi Road New Delhi - 110 003, give the reason as : research (graduate level), with a permission from environmental sceince department of your college.

In my days i have told some tall tales when my dad was in the army and i was in junior school (a sten gun has 1000 bullets was my fav.).

 

[su-30mki]

Let us see what the Department of Forest and Environment (andaman and niobar) says.


Source:
http://forest.and.nic.in/frst-mangroves1.htm

pssst: word to the wise, the department observes these things on a daily basis, you can get a copy of the exact depth and naure of the inland creeks (back waters) from the Ministry of Environment & Forests Paryavaran Bhavan, CGO Complex, Lodhi Road New Delhi - 110 003, give the reason as : research (graduate level), with a permission from environmental sceince department of your college.
In my days i have told some tall tales when my dad was in the army and i was in junior school (a sten gun has 1000 bullets was my fav.).

Thants a good one, but i belive this guy,, he lived there for more than a decade and knew the whole Andaman islands like the back of this hand!!!
I just cannot help but believe this guy.

 

[su-30mki]

More Secret.

March 28, 2007: India is building a UAV base in the Andaman islands, so as to patrol the eastern sea approaches to the Indian coast. The UAVs will be looking for smugglers and terrorists. The Andamans are a string of nearly 600 islands (most uninhabited), that are closer to Thailand, than they are to India (which owns them). The islands extend south nearly to Indonesia, and thus cover traffic coming through the Malacca Straights.

India activated its first UAV maritime reconnaissance squadron (the 342nd) over a year ago. That unit has Israeli equipment (eight Searcher II UAVs and four Herons). The Searcher II san stay aloft for 16 hours at a time. The Heron is similar to the U.S. Predator, and can stay up for fifty hours at a time. The radar and vidcam sensors enable the UAVs to provide unprecedented coverage on short notice. Israel is also using a version of the Heron for maritime reconnaissance. Israel is particularly eager for these UAVs to succeed at maritime recon, for that would open up a huge market for Israeli made UAVs and sensors. Israel has been the leader in UAV technology for over two decades, and has been supplying India with UAVs to the Indian navy for four years now.



Maritime patrol is a job that consists of many hours in the air looking for whatever among not much. Boring as hell for humans, but ideal work for robots. While the U.S. is experimenting with the large, and expensive, Global Hawk UAV, Israel (which really only has to worry about coastal patrols) developed a new version of the old Heron, called the Mahatz I. One thing that makes UAVs for maritime patrol possible, or at least practical, is cheaper and more capable sensors. In the case of the Mahatz I, the radar used (synthetic aperture radar), works with onboard software to provide automatic detection, classification and tracking of what is down there. Human operators ashore, or on a ship or in an aircraft, are alerted if they want to double check with video cameras on the UAV. Also carried are sensors that track the sea state (how choppy it is). For this kind of work, one of the most important things is reliability. While the Mahatz I is a bit smaller (at 1.2 tons) than the Predator, it is still pretty expensive (over $5 million each.) You don't want to lose them over open water. The Mahatz I can stay up for 52 hours at a time, although to provide plenty of margin for error, the usually patrol will be about 35 hours, cruising at about 200 kilometers an hour. The Andaman chain is nearly 500 kilometers long, so UAVs can patrol it, and adjacent waters, rather easily. India has become a pioneer in UAV use for maritime reconnaissance, and their experience will be observed closely by other naval powers.

Link:http://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htnavai/articles/20070328.aspx

This is actually good for the above concerns that have been mentioned in this forum, about some islands being used by the LTTE and Thai people coming illegaly and this will boost the IN'S performance,,, what's say??