T-90 in Comparison to Western Armour
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Is the Iranian deal completely off the books now, or is there still a glimmer of hope that they may purchase knock off kits.
So how effective are the Russians finding out that this paint is, I assume that they are using it on all their armored vehicles now.
I dont know anything exact about paint except what it "reduces radar, laser and thermal signatures". Guess it is classiffied...
Ahh - I wouldn`t place too much stock in it for more modern FCU compenents, this is why they are testing a new Gilee suite out that will cover the vehicles, the only benefits we get from our paint jobs is resistance to chemicals that may be thrown at us.
FutureTank
Banned Member
It is completely off the books. There are several factors, one of which was transfer of technology illegally to Pakistan which would have put unwanted stress on a much larger and complex Indian procurement relationship. It was also suspected that Iran were going to start producing their own counterfeit T-90s as a 'domestic initiative', where as Indians are actually playing it according to rules.
Then there was pressure from US to curtail all defence sales to Iran, and from Israel who feared the T-90s eventually finding their way to Syria.
It didn't help that Russians keep catching Iranian citizens in the Caucasus.
Cheers
Greg
FutureTank
Banned Member
Special paints have been in use for some time, and they are supposed to be used on all vehicles to various degree. There has never been adequate production availability in the paints, but the tanks always got the coats from manufacturer. The problem is that with time the paints degrade, and I'm not sure how effective the coats would be on some of the older models that have not been repainted during upgrades. I have no idea what the durability of the paints is, but usually 3-6 years is considered average. Considering these are armoured vehicles that experience all sorts of environmental effects on their surfaces, this may be less.
Of course the introduction of Nakidka recently has somewhat made the paint issue academic, at least of the newer production and modernization programs.
Cheers
Greg
FutureTank
Banned Member
There are actually three coats.
The undercoat has remained fairly standard since the 50s.
The next coat is the thermal suppressant which is a very difficult coat to apply due to its density. I'm not quite sure how it works, but essentially it would add to the thermal plume while reducing overall signature.
The third coat is a special coat that disperses the laser beam on contact so the designators can't get a good enough point for the seeker. I was told the last coat is very effective against all types of lasers currently in use by military applications, but have no specific source or data to confirm this.
Cheers
Greg
Which technology did Iran give to Pakistan, Pakistan pretty much leaned on Ukraine and China for their tank project, Al Khalid. Israel was really freaked out over this possible upgrade sale out of South Africa that came really close to going to Syria.
FutureTank
Banned Member
You know, I think tanks when designed should not only be good, but look good also, and the South Africans just butchered the T-72 which als all Soviet tanks, has a certain nice ballistic shape. What the f....are those bird boxes all over?! Boooo! :nutkick
Ukranians have very old technology, and almost all the senior designers have left Ukraine for Russia, Europe, Israel and the USA because the funding in Ukraine is 0. All Ukraine is selling now is 80s technology with some upgrades. Hence the desire from Iran for T-90s.
Cheers
Greg
FutureTank
Banned Member
I forgot to mention some Russians/Ukranians also working in Turkey and a number have been enticed to India to help with setup of their production in addition to the contracted Russian staff.
Cheers
Greg
I wouldnt describe Ukrainian technology that bad. "All Ukraine is selling now is 80s technology with some upgrades. " - this is certainly also true for T-90, or M1A2 for that matter. Generally, Ukrainian T-84 design is on-par with T-90, but lack self-sufficiency. Too many systems are either imported from Russia / West Europe, or just plain inferior if domestically produced.You know, I think tanks when designed should not only be good, but look good also, and the South Africans just butchered the T-72 which als all Soviet tanks, has a certain nice ballistic shape. What the f....are those bird boxes all over?! Boooo! :nutkick
Ukranians have very old technology, and almost all the senior designers have left Ukraine for Russia, Europe, Israel and the USA because the funding in Ukraine is 0. All Ukraine is selling now is 80s technology with some upgrades. Hence the desire from Iran for T-90s.
Cheers
Greg
Those will be the independant day/night sights for the TC and gunner, kinda weird setup isn`t it.You know, I think tanks when designed should not only be good, but look good also, and the South Africans just butchered the T-72 which als all Soviet tanks, has a certain nice ballistic shape. What the f....are those bird boxes all over?! Boooo! :nutkick
Ukranians have very old technology, and almost all the senior designers have left Ukraine for Russia, Europe, Israel and the USA because the funding in Ukraine is 0. All Ukraine is selling now is 80s technology with some upgrades. Hence the desire from Iran for T-90s.
Cheers
Greg
What - we have some their engineers:unknown
They did a really good job on the T-84 and I think that it may be about even or if not better than the T-90. The Russians even copied them by going to the welded turret design approach.
Are you joking or are you serius?
FutureTank
Banned Member
If I was an grunt with an ATGM I would be itching to shoot that thing off the turretThose will be the independant day/night sights for the TC and gunner, kinda weird setup isn`t it.
What - we have some their engineers:unknown
They did a really good job on the T-84 and I think that it may be about even or if not better than the T-90. The Russians even copied them by going to the welded turret design approach.
Nah, the cast turret was just a left over stock, and the welded was always projected, but the money was short so the Army decided to use up the turrets since they were already paid for. It is a common misconception that the T-90 was just a renamed T-72 because of that.
Cheers
Greg
FutureTank
Banned Member
I think I already made this suggestion sometime ago and even pointed out the arena - Central Australia. No need for concrete walls....no one around to get hurt except the poor bastards that will be in the contest. It'll sure test the airconditioning systems out also
Yea, makes you wonder how well they would last during a artillery barrage while in the middle of a meeting engagement.If I was an grunt with an ATGM I would be itching to shoot that thing off the turret
Nah, the cast turret was just a left over stock, and the welded was always projected, but the money was short so the Army decided to use up the turrets since they were already paid for. It is a common misconception that the T-90 was just a renamed T-72 because of that.
Cheers
Greg
Now Greg - I always thought that the reason they changed the model designation to T-90 was due to bad survivabilty issues seen on the T-72 series during the Chechen conflicts and Iraqi war, it seems that Russia was concerned that alot of countries were doubting the capability of the tank and orders were shrinking. I must add that it was unfair rap placed on the T-72, no tank during that time frame was going to survive that type of urban environment, the world found out the hard way that their multi million dollar iron chariots are not safe to the average ground pounder in certain environments.
But we would not be able to bring our best tank slayer to the show. M829A3I think I already made this suggestion sometime ago and even pointed out the arena - Central Australia. No need for concrete walls....no one around to get hurt except the poor bastards that will be in the contest. It'll sure test the airconditioning systems out also
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