Royal Australian Navy Discussions and Updates

[Aussie Digger]

Thanks guys, you've answered my questions and "concerns" to the letter. Might souond a bit odd, but I feel relieved that there seems to be a multitude of solutions out there and I agree that with our increased commitments, the 3LHDs and 4 AWDs would be a nice fit and, from what you've said, should be capable of being crewed effectively. I guess here is another bonus of the F100 (I've read the entire AWD thread and the F100 has grown on me!) in that it should require less crew.

Exciting times for the RAN. Am totally blown away by the AdelaideFFGs getting a VLS mount. Have I read that right?

Love talking about this stuff and also love reading and listening to learn so thanks again. Hope to contribute something intelligent in the future!

Yep. The remaining 4x Adelaide Class FFG's are having a single 8x cell Mk 41 VLS system installed behind the sinlg Mk 13 "rail" launcher. The VLS system will be packed with 32x ESSM missiles to boost it's air defence capability.

 

[Tasman]

Yep. The remaining 4x Adelaide Class FFG's are having a single 8x cell Mk 41 VLS system installed behind the sinlg Mk 13 "rail" launcher. The VLS system will be packed with 32x ESSM missiles to boost it's air defence capability.

Already installed in Sydney and Melbourne. The 32 ESSM on top of an upgrade to SM-2 and Harpoon 2 makes them the best equipped OHP class frigates in the world, IMO.

Tas

 

[Andy in West Oz]

I'd have to agree with you there, Tas. Are there any pics floating around of the upgrade or should I look a bit harder in here somewhere?

Edit: not to worry, have found some on the RAN site of Sydney. Googled "Adelaide class upgrades". VLS fit sitting forward on the bow looks well done and quite complementary.

 

[Tasman]

I'd have to agree with you there, Tas. Are there any pics floating around of the upgrade or should I look a bit harder in here somewhere?

Here is a photo I took last month of the Mk41 VLS launcher on Melbourne (it protrudes above deck level).

Tas

 

[Andy in West Oz]

Thanks Tas, they really look the business. Has there been any trial firings?

 

[Tasman]

Thanks Tas, they really look the business. Has there been any trial firings?

I don't know about trial firings from the FFGs but I imagine it will be necessary as part of the post upgrade acceptance. However, ESSM has been fired from the Anzacs. One of them, HMAS Warramunga, was the first non USN ship to fire ESSM, and only the second ship after USS Shoup, to do so.

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/m...tory/03-13-2003/0001907542&EDATE=Mar+13,+2003

Tas

 

[Andy in West Oz]

From Epicos.com

DMO wins again in project management
(2007-09-06)
By: Department of Defence (Australia)

The Defence Materiel Organisation's (DMO) 'HMAS Westralia replacement project' has been named Project of the Year (Australian Capital Territory) at the Australian Institute of Project Management Awards in Canberra overnight.

The Project Management Achievement Awards recognise excellence in all aspects of project management across Australia.

SEA 1654 Phase 2A also won the Defence category for excellence in project management.

Project SEA 1654 commenced in early 2001, initially for the delivery of a purpose built $450 million support ship to replace the Royal Australian Navy's (RAN) aging auxiliary oiler HMAS WESTRALIA by 2009.

However in late 2003 changes to international maritime regulations forced the project to be brought forward to 2006.

With a purpose built ship no longer an option, the only feasible means to maintain this essential capability was to purchase and convert a commercial oiler.

In record time, and against fierce international competition for base ships, the project team was able to secure an 'as new' vessel; develop fully costed specifications for the conversion to RAN requirements; and award and manage a demanding conversion contract.

HMAS SIRIUS was delivered in 2006, ahead of schedule and under budget.

SEA 1654 Phase 2A will now represent the Australian Capital Territory at the National Awards to be held in Hobart on 9 October 2007.

Project AIR 8000 Phase 3 was also awarded a highly commended in the Defence / Aerospace division for their work in the delivery of the C-17 aircraft.

 

[Tasman]

DMO wins again in project management

SEA 1654 Phase 2A also won the Defence category for excellence in project management...


Project AIR 8000 Phase 3 was also awarded a highly commended in the Defence / Aerospace division for their work in the delivery of the C-17 aircraft.

Good to see some positive PR for the Australian defence industry for a change.

Tas

 

[Tasman]

Thanks Tas, they really look the business. Has there been any trial firings?

The Department of Defence reported today that there has now been a successful test firing of ESSM from an upgraded FFG:

MISSILE FIRING SHOWS NEW NAVY AIR DEFENCE CAPABILITY



A Royal Australian Navy FFG-7 class guided missile frigate has successfully conducted the inaugural and first-of-class firing against an unmanned aerial target of the new generation Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM).



The frigate HMAS Sydney fired a missile against a Kalkara unmanned airborne target on Monday 20 August 2007. The missile was successfully launched and controlled in flight, resulting in the destruction of the target.



The missile was fired from the Vertical Launch System recently installed in HMAS Sydney as part of the FFG Upgrade Program. The firing was supported by the upgraded combat system and the Australian Distributed Architecture Combat System (ADACS) software being developed and delivered by the former ADI Ltd, now trading as Thales Australia.



This Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile firing is the first from an FFG-7 class frigate, a class in service with many navies around the world. HMAS Sydney is undergoing a multi-million dollar upgrade including its combat system. The ship now is equipped with two missile systems to combat anti-ship missiles and aircraft.



This successful firing is a significant achievement for the FFG Upgrade Program. It justifies confidence in the current upgrade of the Australian Distributed Architecture Combat System (ADACS) software used to support this first-of-class firing of the Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile from the installed Vertical Launch System.



The FFG Upgrade Project is scheduled for completion in December 2009.

http://www.defence.gov.au/media/DepartmentalTpl.cfm?CurrentId=7048

Looks like the FFG upgrade is now well and truly on track.

Tas

 

[Navor86]

I just read through the RAN CD Team structure and Navy Seal Team Structure.
Each RAN CD Team (there are 2) has 58 Men in it Ranks.
There are 3 Branche in this Teams
The Mine Counter Measures Element wit 17 Men
The Maritime Tactical Operations Element with 13 Men
The Underwater Battle Damage Repair Element with 13 Men

As we now take into account that each Navy Seal Team has 3 Task Groups with 2 Platoons each 16 Men + HQ, so 40 Man per Task Group I really do not understand why The Aussis just not such a SEAL Style Task Group to each of its Teams. As there is already an MTO with 13 Men you would just need to add 27 Men to each Team and so you would have 2 Aussie Seal Platoons per Team or all in all 4 Platoons

 

[AegisFC]

Looks like the FFG upgrade is now well and truly on track.

Tas

So they have solved the weight problems and hull stress issues that seemed to plague the program from the start?

 

[Tasman]

So they have solved the weight problems and hull stress issues that seemed to plague the program from the start?

Whilst the FFG upgrade seems to be back on track there are still some deficiencies to be fixed with Sydney, according to the 2007/2008 budget papers. She was to be given initial operational release in mid 2007 but full acceptance will not occur before late 2008 when the prime contractor has rectified deficiencies. These deficiencies included the underwater warfare systems, electronic support system and the Australian Distributed Architecture Combat System software. It looks like Sydney has now been given initial operational release. Melbourne's acceptance is due late this year and as she recently visited Hobart it looks as though her upgrade program has been smoother than that of her sister. Darwin was due to enter dock for her upgrade by mid 2007 followed by Newcastle before the end of the year.

Tas

 

[barra]

Tas,

What happened to the idea of the ANZAC frigates having a modular weapons loadout. I thought the original design was such that weapons could be changed to suit the mission requirements. So the MK 45 (?) gun could be replaced with a missile launcher, for example, and so on. Did we just not buy the kit to do this, cause I am sure it was one of the big selling points of the MEKO design at the time.

Hooroo

 

[Tasman]

Tas,

What happened to the idea of the ANZAC frigates having a modular weapons loadout. I thought the original design was such that weapons could be changed to suit the mission requirements. So the MK 45 (?) gun could be replaced with a missile launcher, for example, and so on. Did we just not buy the kit to do this, cause I am sure it was one of the big selling points of the MEKO design at the time.

Hooroo

The Anzacs do have a modular design but the Australian ships seem to have a problem with excess top weight that has reduced the hoped for flexibility. This is believed to be one reason that Phalanx has never been fitted to the RAN ships, even for trials. Compared with their Kiwi cousins which have Phalanx, the Aussie ships have a number of additional systems. These include ESSM (extra 24 missiles), Harpoon (2 quad launchers fitted to at least three ships at this stage), Nulka (4 quad launchers), Mini Typhoon and a heavier helo. The ships were meant to be easy to modify/upgrade but the weight problem seems to be causing some headaches during the current ASMD upgrade.

Tas

 

[rossfrb_1]

radar mast differences FFG's

Here are some photos I took of FFG04 (HMAS Darwin) and FFG06 (HMAS Newcastle) - well the radar masts anyway, in Sydney a few weeks ago. From what I can gather Darwin is currently undergoing her refit and Newcastle has yet to. I was wondering if anyone can comment (unclassified of course) on the differences. Sorry for the poor quality pics, Tas you'll probably shudder. But all I had was my gf's 3X optical P&S.
Also here's a full shot of HMAS Darwin, with the VLS install in progress.
rb

 

[Tasman]

Harpoon now fitted to 4th Anzac

HMAS Stuart has just visited Devonport. Significantly she was carrying Harpoon anti ship missiles. At least four Anzacs now have Harpoon launchers fitted - Anzac, Warramunga, Arunta and Stuart.

Tas

 

[enghave]

P.S wanna solve recruiting in one relatively cheap stroke of a pen? (Ban the Class II Junior Sailor's Cap)

Has this historically been opposed by the RAN? It is staggering that this simple and effective idea hasn't been implemented yet. RN-style berets would be an improvement. I like RAN baseball caps with working dress though.

 

[battlensign]

Has this historically been opposed by the RAN? It is staggering that this simple and effective idea hasn't been implemented yet. RN-style berets would be an improvement. I like RAN baseball caps with working dress though.

To be honest, I am not entirely sure if there has been resistance to the replacement of the Class II Lid, though I would have to assume there was as it is still around. Technically, it ought never to have been used by the RAN as Australia has a very different climate to the UK. However, it must be noted that at the time that it was introduced by the Commonwealth navies we were members of 'The Fleet', and were fully integrated as such. Additionally, the Mediteranean and Far Eastern fleets were part of the global responsibilities of the RN and so quite clearly were used outside European Theatres (different climates that still had the cap used).

From what I have read, traditionally sailors are just that: very traditional (bordering on extremely superstitious in times gone by). It is not unlikely that there have been calls to keep the cap. Thank GOD we have been able to get rid of the Red Sea Rig and other associated rigs that included Bells (Bell Bottom pants with seven folds) as requisite elements of the uniform:shudder . Image is everything these days. Its not the FFG's/FFH's and LPA's/Collins' that make the RAN "Uncool" .

 

[Tasman]

Harpoon outfit on RAN FFH's

At least four of the Anzac class FFH's are now fitted with launchers for Harpoon but they only seem to carry the full outfit of missiles when on operational deployment. For example Warramunga and Anzac both shipped the full outfit of eight canisters (2x4) during their most recent Gulf deployments.

During the last three visits to Tasmania by an Anzac class frigate, Warramunga shipped two canisters, Stuart had two, and Arunta's launchers were 'empty'.

When the Spanish F-100 class frigate, Álvaro de Bazán (F101), visited Australia recently she only had four (2x2) instead of eight (2x4) Harpoon canisters shipped so it seems that the RAN is not alone in not fitting the full outfit of missiles during normal peacetime cruises.

I am wondering what the RAN's present policy is re the shipping of Harpoon. Perhaps one of our naval members may be able to answer (if the info is not classified). Also I would be interested in observations re the carrying of Harpoon from members able to observe movements of FFH's from Fleet Base East or Fleet Base West.

Here is a photo of Stuart during her recent visit to Devonport. Note that she is shipping just one Harpoon canister on each launcher. It is not one of mine. The original link is:

http://www.shipspotting.com/modules/myalbum/photo.php?lid=498284&cid=23


Tas

 

[enghave]

From what I have read, traditionally sailors are just that: very traditional (bordering on extremely superstitious in times gone by). It is not unlikely that there have been calls to keep the cap.

I spoke to a fellow ADF applicant this morning, he was going in as a aircraft technician in the Air Force, and cited the cap as the first reason he was not going navy.

I'm going navy, and can confirm sailors (especially experienced ones) are still very traditional, I think it has to do with seamanship being part art, part science. A strong belief in supernatural forces can be psychologically comforting, and very useful in a practical sense, if you're at sea, hundreds of miles from land or other ships, and something goes very wrong.