The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

[Super Nimrod]

Pingu, Harpoon is carried by the Nimrod MR2 currently and will be intergrated into the MRA4. most other air launched weapons will also fit the new Nimrod but on a fitted for and not with basis.

As swerve says the latest version of the Pengiun/NSM will fit in the F-35, although I haven't seen any commitment to buy it from the UK MOD.

 

[contedicavour]

It's bizarre that while the RN is going ahead with the 2 CVF (hurray ), here in France the new President and the MOD haven't confirmed anything yet. Some pro-government parliamentarians are getting impatient and letting it known...

cheers

 

[Pingu]

It's a shame that the ALARM is being retired with no serious immediate replacement.

The ALARM is better in many ways than the HARM and with its indirect mode, provides "soft kill" which is of great tactical advantage.

The ALARM should be installed on most UK aircraft given that they don't have dedicated SEAD aircraft.

I heard that there is the possibilty of a SEAD Meteor being developed but this is just a concept and I am not sure whether the Meteors air frame will capable of a similar loiter capability to the ALARM and whether the expensive airframe is neccesary for a SEAD missle.

 

[harryriedl]

It's bizarre that while the RN is going ahead with the 2 CVF (hurray ), here in France the new President and the MOD haven't confirmed anything yet. Some pro-government parliamentarians are getting impatient and letting it known...

cheers

are we now going to have the will they won't they type conversations about the PA2 as we had about the CVF [i hear a cut in defense is happing and the PA2 could be a target under the Sarko government] and isn't their a major spending review in progress

 

[Dr Phobus]

Many of us hope the French will purchase a second carrier, (PA-2) will makes a lot of encomonic sence since the design is already in exsistence and moreover, 1 carrier is really 1 to few -for both nations-

3-4 larger carrier (UK/France) and 3-4 smaller carrier (Spain/Italy) in the EU its becoming rather impressive carrier force.

I find it hard too believe the RN will have the funds or the desire too fit an electromagnetic or steam catapult too the QE for a fixed-wing AEW platform alone.
Should they ? IMO Yes !! the Hawkeye series is an excellent system.

 

[Dr Phobus]

F-35 and ARM

this attachment is from the LM F35 site

is their any ALARM replacements in the pipeline

Anyone notise that on the weapons lay out there is NO Anti radiation missile capability listed. A rather interesting ommission, and i am sure one in error.

HARM-E and the MBDA based system are the only 2 i know of forthcoming.

Thoughts please.

 

[swerve]

Anyone notise that on the weapons lay out there is NO Anti radiation missile capability listed. A rather interesting ommission, and i am sure one in error.

HARM-E and the MBDA based system are the only 2 i know of forthcoming.

Thoughts please.

The French haven't operated an ARM for some years now, claiming that the effects can now be achieved by using emitter locators to locate a radar, & lobbing a generic PGM at it. AASM will be used in future.

 

[Dr Phobus]

Indeed, however, there remains 2 ARM's in development, I would be surprized if the Harm development is not intergrated into the F-35's (exturnal) arsenel. Althought with the advent of smaller, cheaper, stand-off PGM's coupled with comprehensive ESM/location could reduce the reliance on ARM to destroy radars.

 

[kato]

The French haven't operated an ARM for some years now

Wasn't that primarily because the ARMAT were expiring shelf life?

 

[contedicavour]

are we now going to have the will they won't they type conversations about the PA2 as we had about the CVF [i hear a cut in defense is happing and the PA2 could be a target under the Sarko government] and isn't their a major spending review in progress

Yes the review is underway. The MPs closest to the defence industry are screaming to save a maximum of programmes. Sarkozy doesn't plan to cut spending but to rationalize it (and potentially cut a few programmes that are less needed or that risk strong overspending). I'm pretty sure PA2 will materialize, though with a CV and the Barracuda SSNs I wonder how much the FREMM programme will have to be cut It seems certain that the 17 planned will go down to 13...

cheers

 

[swerve]

Wasn't that primarily because the ARMAT were expiring shelf life?

That's a reason to retire the missiles, not cease deploying any kind of ARM. The ARMATs could have been refurbished (a major job, IIRC, but probably cheaper than new missiles), or a new type developed, or even something imported. None of these was done.

 

[riksavage]

According to UK press reports and MOD releases the first T45 HMS Daring has just completed the initial month long speed and maneuverability trials resulting in all milestones being exceeded. Daring achieved 31.5 knots - exceeding a target of 28 knots and from a standing start she reached 29 knots in just 70 seconds and apparently comes to a dead halt within 800 yards. The vessel also demonstrated the ability to turn full circle within three ship lengths. The vessel will now be loaded with Astor missiles for the next stage, which will include systems and weapons testing.

So far, so good, we just now need confirmation of at least two more orders bringing the total to eight.

 

[Super Nimrod]

Good news Interesting about the speed bit

 

[WillS]

According to UK press reports and MOD releases the first T45 HMS Daring has just completed the initial month long speed and maneuverability trials

I presume that the press report you are referring to is the Daily Telegraph one here?

Whilst the speed bit is nice, I wouldn't believe a word of the rest, this is one of the worst researched articles from a newspaper on defence I've seen in a long time (and the Telegraph portrays itself as the force's friend).

Amongst other claims we're told by the Telegraph that Daring will be carrying both Harpoon and Tomahawk, they neglect to mention the CIWS and state that the ship can carry Chinook, Apache or Merlin helicopters. Whilst all of those helicopters can theoretically be carried, the ship will only be equipped to carry the Lynx when it initially comes into service.

Really, really poor reporting.

Will.

 

[riksavage]

Agreed shocking reporting for the 'Torygraph', however the same comments were made by a number of other attendees from the press corps who where present at the demo.

BAE / RN is pushing to advertise the ships capabilities in the hope the Government will sign off on the next two.

 

[Super Nimrod]

Official release from the MOD

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...westDestroyerBreezesThroughFirstSeaTrials.htm

There is also a short piece of film on the BBC website which I have been unable to provide a link to.

 

[mark22w]

..Amongst other claims we're told by the Telegraph that Daring will be carrying both Harpoon and Tomahawk, they neglect to mention the CIWS and state that the ship can carry Chinook, Apache or Merlin helicopters. Whilst all of those helicopters can theoretically be carried, the ship will only be equipped to carry the Lynx when it initially comes into service.

Really, really poor reporting.

Will.

Agreed. A good day for press coverage with the following BBC video clip showing Daring during sea trials...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/...tm&news=1&bbram=1&nbwm=1&bbwm=1&nbram=1&asb=1

Hmm... if the link doesn't work its on news.bbc.co.uk or delete the defencetalk preamble...

Enjoy!

 

[Tasman]

Official release from the MOD

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...westDestroyerBreezesThroughFirstSeaTrials.htm

There is also a short piece of film on the BBC website which I have been unable to provide a link to.

Well at least the MOD website confirms that crew are pleased with the accommodation standards and that it performed magnificently during sea trials. Commander David Shutts comments were interesting:

"The ship has performed magnificently during our initial sea trials over the past few weeks. In addition to being incredibly stable, smooth and rapid, she is also extremely agile with a very tight turning circle indeed. Further, she can come to a halt from top speed in less than three hull lengths.

"Having also spoken to many experienced colleagues at BAE Systems, I think that we are all agreed that this is the best first of class initial sea trial that any of us has ever experienced. Clearly, this bodes very well for the future ships."

http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...westDestroyerBreezesThroughFirstSeaTrials.htm

It does seem that the Type 45s are off to a very promising beginning. Let's hope that as well as hulls 7 and 8 being built, that all will be fully equipped rather than being "fitted for but not with."

Tas

 

[harryriedl]

Well at least the MOD website confirms that crew are pleased with the accommodation standards and that it performed magnificently during sea trials. Commander David Shutts comments were interesting:



http://www.mod.uk/DefenceInternet/D...westDestroyerBreezesThroughFirstSeaTrials.htm

It does seem that the Type 45s are off to a very promising beginning. Let's hope that as well as hulls 7 and 8 being built, that all will be fully equipped rather than being "fitted for but not with."

Tas

but to be honest it would be nice to just have last 2 hulls
how are the horizon classes doing are they both still in sea trials

 

[Systems Adict]

I presume that the press report you are referring to is the Daily Telegraph one here?

Whilst the speed bit is nice, I wouldn't believe a word of the rest, this is one of the worst researched articles from a newspaper on defence I've seen in a long time (and the Telegraph portrays itself as the force's friend).

Amongst other claims we're told by the Telegraph that Daring will be carrying both Harpoon and Tomahawk, they neglect to mention the CIWS and state that the ship can carry Chinook, Apache or Merlin helicopters. Whilst all of those helicopters can theoretically be carried, the ship will only be equipped to carry the Lynx when it initially comes into service.

Really, really poor reporting.


Will.

....Having been away on "company business" for the last 29 days,(which is IDENTICAL in time length to how long Daring was @ sea.....) I've not had access internet or e-mail.....




I've read the comments made in the Telegraph (via the link above), & watched some of the BBC coverage this morning. I have to say in my personal opinion that there are no apparent untruths in any of the comments made via either medium.

As others have also said it would be great for the UK GDP, as well the engineering industrial complex & the shipbuilders to have all the promises backed up with some ink on paper.....


Systems Adict