The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

[Musashi_kenshin]

The UK Government has made a commitment to BAE / VT to build at least one warship a year for the next 15 years to guarantee skill continuity

Richard Beedall says this is in reference to major warships, and the new class of OPVs/MCMs would not count. He expects the ideas developed from the S2C2 and FSC projects to reach initial gate sometime next year, with main gate for the first class in 2010 (probably the C2).

A UK variant of FREMM is not likely.

 

[overlander]

congratulations for the order of the cvf,s at last, this confirm the position of the RN as one of the top navies in the world, what about the final size of the carriers ?? i mean if they will be 280 m. long as expected, less or more ?? these 2 new carriers are a major contribuition to the the western defence and i am very happy to see them finally ordered. greetings.

 

[Neutral Zone]

Labour acting very un-labour like it's almost like having a conservitive gov of old. defence seems to be doing alright under brown may it stay that way

• CVF's ordered
• renewed comitment to T45 7&8 [wonder what they call them]
• a 6th C17
• and before he was in power a 5th Astuite

• and the renewal of trident
• and new kit for the army and upgrades for the warrior and the chally 2

But that just begs the question why over the last 10 years the Treasury forced the MoD to make so many cuts? If this is a taste of what is to come, then I'll not be complaining, but things shouldn't have been allowed to get into their current state.

 

[Neutral Zone]

congratulations for the order of the cvf,s at last, this confirm the position of the RN as one of the top navies in the world, what about the final size of the carriers ?? i mean if they will be 280 m. long as expected, less or more ?? these 2 new carriers are a major contribuition to the the western defence and i am very happy to see them finally ordered. greetings.

Here's an extract of the MoD's factsheet on the CVF;

"The carrier will be similar size and weight as the ocean liner the QE2 The CVF dimensions are: 65,000 tonnes at full displacement; 284m (931ft) length x 73m (239ft) width at flightdeck level; 6m from keel to masthead – 6m taller than Nelson's Column; 11m max draft (keel to waterline); 9 decks deep + Flight Deck; 40 aircraft"

The dimensions and dispacement have remained roughly the same throughout the design process, there was some speculation that the size was going to be reduced to something around the 40,000t mark, similar to Charles de Gaulle.

 

[Super Nimrod]

harryriedl, Slightly off topic I know, but I don't recall an announcememt recently about the Challly. Is this something that they sneaked out just before Parliament went into recess for the summer ?

 

[Izzy1]

[*]renewed comitment to T45 7&8 [wonder what they call them]

Dare I say they'll be called something in Saudi Arabic...

 

[harryriedl]

harryriedl, Slightly off topic I know, but I don't recall an announcememt recently about the Challly. Is this something that they sneaked out just before Parliament went into recess for the summer ?

the chally upgrade has been floting around the time of the greek tank trial their is very little info and very few actual details unlike the warrior lethatity improvement upgrade. I followed info posted on tanknet months ago and their was an MOD annocement and some speculation which inculed MTU Europack 1500hp and a 120mm L55 Smothbore cannon their has been an MOD annocement somewere its late so i can't dig up now but I will try later

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Dare I say they'll be called something in Saudi Arabic...

It's a requirement for the Royal Navy, which would imply they're for the UK. There has been no news over Saudi Arabia buying a number since the first rumours in March.

 

[swerve]

I can't argue against the points that you and riksavage have made as there is considerable logic in what you say.. It is beginning to appear that the ideal design for the RN would be an updated version of Ocean!

Cheers

Or a new design (Ocean is based on Invincible - pretty old!), but along the same lines. But as Harry says, there's scope to run on Ark Royal for a while, & she was modified in her recent refit to make her more Ocean-like. And Ocean has a lot life left in her. If we could get a new LPH to replace Ark Royal in about 10 years, & keep Ocean a while longer, it'd do for me.

 

[harryriedl]

Or a new design (Ocean is based on Invincible - pretty old!), but along the same lines. But as Harry says, there's scope to run on Ark Royal for a while, & she was modified in her recent refit to make her more Ocean-like. And Ocean has a lot life left in her. If we could get a new LPH to replace Ark Royal in about 10 years, & keep Ocean a while longer, it'd do for me.

for some reason i feel that a design based of the Cavor carrier would be a good design for an new LPH

 

[Izzy1]

It's a requirement for the Royal Navy, which would imply they're for the UK. There has been no news over Saudi Arabia buying a number since the first rumours in March.

I hope they are for the Royal Navy, WE need them more.

But I work for BAE Systems over here in Saudi and believe me there isn't smoke without fire on this one.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

I hope they are for the Royal Navy, WE need them more.

But I work for BAE Systems over here in Saudi and believe me there isn't smoke without fire on this one.

If the numbers mentioned were for Saudi Arabia, the MoD would not have said their plans still required eight. That's an admission that the Royal Navy needs that many, which they would not have made if they knew it wouldn't get eight.

Saudi Arabia's destroyers would be in addition to what the Royal Navy gets in my view, especially as if they order 2 or 3 it will reduce production costs and thus enable more to be ordered.

 

[riksavage]

The rumor is Saudi will get 7&8 and the RN will get 9&10. The delay will reduce the financial strain but still keep the shipyards busy.

 

[Dr Phobus]

The selling of such major warships will indeed be a positive event for the ships yeards and 7-8 Type-45 are indeed the minimum required,I wonder if the more anti west stance of the russians well prompt more spending ?

Also, any one confirm the thinking about more C-17's

 

[Super Nimrod]

All the speculation about the C-17's, now we have just ordered a 6th aircraft, is that they will order one a year until production stops. However, nothing official has come out to back that up. The view in the UK press seems to be that the government are digging in for a long mission to Helmand (perhaps a decade) and they will need the strategic assets to back that up. Their intent is also being shown by the 2500 metre paved runway being built in theatre closer to the action that will mean direct C-17 flights from the UK to camp Bastion

 

[harryriedl]

All the speculation about the C-17's now we have just ordered a 6th aircraft is that they will order one a year until production stops. However, nothing official has come out to back that up.

If true that would be very good news for the RAF and for that underapresated branch of logistics . so if true their could be a possibility of having a squadron of 9 aircraft which would be very useful
If the Saudi T45 get ordered that would be very good news for BAE and VT

 

[WillS]

Or a new design (Ocean is based on Invincible - pretty old!), but along the same lines. But as Harry says, there's scope to run on Ark Royal for a while, & she was modified in her recent refit to make her more Ocean-like. And Ocean has a lot life left in her. If we could get a new LPH to replace Ark Royal in about 10 years, & keep Ocean a while longer, it'd do for me.

Interesting article on DefenceNews (www.defensenews.com/story.php?F=2925751&C=navwar") which, amongst other things, contains the line:

"Some worry that the new carriers will turn out like the HMS Ocean. Built on a tight budget to commercial standards, the 12-year-old helicopter carrier is a floating maintenance headache."

A floating maintenance headache? I hadn't heard that about Ocean before. If true it would dampen my enthusiasm for a sister ship built to the same standards. Maybe another Ocean isn't going to be the bargain I assumed it would be.

WillS

 

[riksavage]

Interesting statement, the first I've heard about it being a problem maintenance wise. I know Marines who have served on the vessel and they rave about the design, space and versatility.

Commerical standards should have nothing to do with it, most civi ships today sail with tiny crews relying on minimum maintenance whilst at sea.

 

[riksavage]

Another consideration is that Ocean was in a way very experimental because she was the first RN ship to make use of commercial shipping standards in non-critical areas. It was also the first to experiment with lean manning. Such innovative solutions will experience teething problems, but at the end of the day the RN ended up with a discounted LHP that has proved its worth operationally. Other Navies are now looking at introducing similar programs. I would rather see cheaper ‘taxi’ vessels supported by cutting edge escorts (T45) rather than a broad range of average ships.

The lessons learnt building Ocean will not be lost on the two carriers. We are fortunate that BAE / VT have gained invaluable experience in recent years with Astute and T45, particularly in CAD design and construction methods. They are both riding the crest of a construction wave, which will only improve over time if Labour keeps its promises.

 

[Markus40]

Congratulations on the government selecting the building of the two new 65000 ton Aircraft Carriers. I think this is a major step in the governments policy of renewing the RNs status as a Naval Power, and despite the negative actions of the government over the last years towards the up keep and selling off of the RNs assets it would now appear that the RN will have a way better Naval asset with the onset of new submarines and updated SSBNs along with the new Type 45 Destroyer and new frigate. Seems to be a lot happening in the restructuring and relining of the RN but i do think its for the better and now with the new Aircraft Carriers this appear to be the major break through that many within the Naval fraternity were hoping for. Wonderful news.