The French Rafale Fighter Aircraft

[eckherl]

I would think it happens quite frequently, as I have heard of such many times.

Currently HMS Illustrious has USMC Harriers embarked.

http://royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.9793

And pictures:

http://royalnavy.mod.uk/server/show/nav.1268

I could envision that seeings how the Harrier is a VSTOL aircraft, but on other NATO naval aircraft and aircraft carriers does everyone stick to a uniform landing gear and catapult/arresting system or is there modifications that need to be done to make this happen.

 

[radiosilence]

I think this is the first time a first French aircraft launch and recover on a US carrier. It was a catapult-assisted launch.

 

[AegisFC]

I could envision that seeings how the Harrier is a VSTOL aircraft, but on other NATO naval aircraft and aircraft carriers does everyone stick to a uniform landing gear and catapult/arresting system or is there modifications that need to be done to make this happen.

Well the French did buy US made Cats and arrester gear so chances are the French already use mostly US procedures anyway and any differences would be taken care of during the pilot and crew briefs.

 

[Grand Danois]

I could envision that seeings how the Harrier is a VSTOL aircraft, but on other NATO naval aircraft and aircraft carriers does everyone stick to a uniform landing gear and catapult/arresting system or is there modifications that need to be done to make this happen.

Well, I think the only CATOBAR carrier in the NATO European navies is the Charles de Gaulle, which use the same kind of catapult as used on the Nimitz class CVN (licensed/made in the US). Although the bridle recovery system differs, IIRC.

The Rafales are not embarked. Just cross decking.

(@AegisFC - Sorry missed your post above.)

 

[eckherl]

Thanks guys - I think this is a neat deal and hopefully we will continue to see things like this happening.

 

[10ringr]

And considering it's easily the most capable aircraft ever devised, it's seems unbelievable that it simply cannot win a foreign order.

Perhaps L-M and Dassault need to come a bit closer. L-M could use Dassault's obvious engineering brilliance and Dassault could use L-M's obvious marketing brilliance... nfloorl:

Cue: BKNO...

"most capable fighter ever devised". Admin: text deleted. Please refer to forum guidelines on posting etiquette. The only market the French have got a corner on is their firearms production Admin: text deleted. Please refer to forum guidelines on posting etiquette. Hutch

Admin: Subsequent breaches will result in the warning cycle being triggered.

 

[10ringr]

both have an IRST. Both are HOTAS, Rafale has Spectra countermeasures while Eurofighter has DASS (which appears to be slightly more comprehensive in terms of counter-measures). Both have HMCS - Typhoon can slave the radar to it, they have very comparable radar capability , AESA will be on both , in thrust loading and turn capability both are far better than the older aircraft , like F-16 , Mig-29 , .. The Eurofighter is mostly based on air to air superiority , having a multirole as second choise , Rafale is mostly designed for ground capability , the rafale has a slightly better take off weight , bigger range obviusly , eurofighter is faster , all in all they are very similar aircraft , but if i had too choose I would choose eurofighter

Yes, absolutely if it's a choice between the two....... Hutch

 

[kato]

I think this is the first time a first French aircraft launch and recover on a US carrier. It was a catapult-assisted launch.

Both French E-2s, last year (?), and French F-8E(FN)s, in 1979/80, have fully landed and launched on US carriers.
Just like US E-2s, C-2s and F-18s on CdG in the last few years.

Also, both French Super Etendards and Rafales from CdG have done touch-and-gos on US carriers (on CVN74, with both Stennis and CdG in Taskforce 473) since last year or so.
The Super Etendards would have trouble with the catapults on a US carrier - since US carriers regularly don't carry the bridle gear needed to hook up the Etendard (any more).

 

[radiosilence]

Both French E-2s, last year (?), and French F-8E(FN)s, in 1979/80, have fully landed and launched on US carriers.
Just like US E-2s, C-2s and F-18s on CdG in the last few years.

Also, both French Super Etendards and Rafales from CdG have done touch-and-gos on US carriers (on CVN74, with both Stennis and CdG in Taskforce 473) since last year or so.
The Super Etendards would have trouble with the catapults on a US carrier - since US carriers regularly don't carry the bridle gear needed to hook up the Etendard (any more).

Did some research and came across this release.



070723-N-6524M-004 MEDITERRANEAN SEA (July 23, 2007) - A French Rafale M combat aircraft performs a catapult-assisted launch from the flight deck of the nuclear-powered aircraft carrier USS Enterprise (CVN 65). The Rafale is the first French aircraft to both launch and recover on an American carrier. Enterprise and embarked Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 1 are currently underway on a scheduled six-month deployment. U.S Navy photo by Mass Communication Specialist Seaman Brandon Morris (RELEASED)



http://www.navy.mil/view_single.asp?id=48615

 

[kato]

The Rafale is the first French aircraft to both launch and recover on an American carrier

I'm gonna have to go dig a bit, but i'm pretty sure French Crusaders (from Foch) did landing/launching operations on Nimitz around 1980, possibly during Dawn Patrol or MultiPlEx. More likely the first, in 1978.

 

[f-22fan12]

And considering it's easily the most capable aircraft ever devised, it's seems unbelievable that it simply cannot win a foreign order.

Perhaps L-M and Dassault need to come a bit closer. L-M could use Dassault's obvious engineering brilliance and Dassault could use L-M's obvious marketing brilliance... nfloorl:

Cue: BKNO...

How is it the "most capable aircraft ever devised" ? I think and know the F-22 is the most capable fighter aircraft. Stealth, Supercruise, super agility. I do not beleive the Rafale is as capable as the Eurofighter either. Eurofighter has supercruise and better avionics. I am however surprised that the Rafale isn't doing great in exports. To me, its the third or fourth best plane in the world and the Mirages have a long list of foreign operators.
I'm Pretty sure there are about 290 to be built and delivered.

 

[f-22fan12]

Done! Sorry for the mix-up...



I very strongly suggest that you start informing yourself...

Rafale makes a cold meal of all "Legacy" fighters and is more than on par with Typhoon, it actually can out-turn/ out-accelerate a Mirage 2000 in DRY power only, the 2000 is the very aircraft giving the Falcon a serious run for its money.

THIS according to their pilots and BTW NOT the light C AdA model, the M with 650 kg extra weight and the old fashion avionics and MDPU.

The MDPU fited to the F1 is that of the Mirage 2000-5F (2084 XRI ) that of the F2 is 50 time more powerful and it have 18 of them instead of 3...

We're going to have FUN informing you guys....

In comparison to the baseline F-16, and F-15s, you are right. But when you take an F-15K for example, you are wrong in my view. The Rafales Agility may be better yet the new F-15K can carry many more weapons of different kinds. Also, its electronics are better. Many upgrades to the regular F-15E.

And I also don't believe it is on par with the Typhoon. The Typhoon is a superior aircraft. The Rafale just isn't as good. And your right, it gives the lower model falcons a run for its money. However for the F-16I, F-16 block 60, I think the Falcons are superior here.

 

[f-22fan12]

Yes i definitely believe the Rafale came at the wrong time.

Anyone who wants a cheap fighter buys an F-16, anyone who wants an expensive fighter buys a Eurofighter. The Rafale sits awkwardly inbetween.

Dassault should have kept going with the Mirage 4000 IMO that would have came out a decade before the Rafale and it would have been the best aircraft in the world at that time. The french could have sold it to the Eurofighter customers if they let them help manufacturer it.

BKNO whats your opinion on this? Is the Rafale similar to the Mirage 4000, The Rafale is a bit smaller and lighter, do they use similar engines?

I certainly agree about the "wrong time" part. You are right. For a cheap plane you go for an F-16 for an expensive plane, Eurofighter. And many countries are already involved in the F-35. The countries in which the Rafale has been marketed to are strong allies of the U.S. (Singapore, S. Korea) When they held evaluations, they would almost certainly go for the American aircraft. Another reason why they would chose American is because South Koera for example already has U.S. fighter jets and weapons. (more compadability.)

 

[nero]

How is it the "most capable aircraft ever devised" ? I think and know the F-22 is the most capable fighter aircraft. Stealth, Supercruise, super agility. I do not beleive the Rafale is as capable as the Eurofighter either. Eurofighter has supercruise and better avionics. I am however surprised that the Rafale isn't doing great in exports. To me, its the third or fourth best plane in the world and the Mirages have a long list of foreign operators.
I'm Pretty sure there are about 290 to be built and delivered.

.
no doubt rafale is a great fighter , but the off-sets r just not competetive enough.

i mean some of the asmaments r just not potent enough at the global level.

take the example of MBDA meteor, even the russians offer better packages with their R-77.

another example is that of SCALP-EG ( Storm shadow ) air-to ground, which is not even upto brahmos or babur standards.

with such poor offsets the rafale cannot hope to compete at the global level.


.

 

[kato]

another example is that of SCALP-EG ( Storm shadow ) air-to ground, which is not even upto brahmos or babur standards.

Brahmos weighs 2.5 times as much, has a warhead 2/3rd the size (airlaunched variant) of SCALP's and has a comparably huge signature in-flight, a much higher attack profile, and for that only a 16% range advantage and faster speed.

And of course the air-launched version of Brahmos is nowhere near ready-for-deployment.

take the example of MBDA meteor, even the russians offer better packages with their R-77.

Err... no. And as for the "even", i'd like to see you name and other contenders comparable to Meteor / R-77M / AIM-120D. Out of which the Meteor is pretty much the closest to service too, btw.

As for competitiveness, seriously - both Meteor and SCALP are European projects, designed for European countries primarily. That is, nations that would not even consider Russian equipment as it doesn't fit their doctrine or existing logistics, and that reject US equipment in these cases to enable domestic production without US interference.

 

[10ringr]

Thanks guys

I'm gonna have to go dig a bit, but i'm pretty sure French Crusaders (from Foch) did landing/launching operations on Nimitz around 1980, possibly during Dawn Patrol or MultiPlEx. More likely the first, in 1978.

I really appreciate all the good feed back and the time you were all willing to invest in helping me to learn the rules, respect them and share my own. Thanks Again, 10ringr

 

[swerve]

How is it the "most capable aircraft ever devised" ? ...
I'm Pretty sure there are about 290 to be built and delivered.

Errr - it was a joke. BKNO (banned) was a poster who could get quite vociferous in arguing that Rafale was far superior to any other fighter except, perhaps, in limited circumstances where its advantages were cancelled out, the F-22. He was equally vehement about the superiority of anything French to anything non-French, particularly if it had any English element.

The French requirement is 294 Rafale, though less than half have been ordered so far. About 50 delivered, I think. Maybe a few more.

 

[10ringr]

Mighty F/A 22

nfloorl:

How is it the "most capable aircraft ever devised" ? I think and know the F-22 is the most capable fighter aircraft. Stealth, Supercruise, super agility. I do not beleive the Rafale is as capable as the Eurofighter either. Eurofighter has supercruise and better avionics. I am however surprised that the Rafale isn't doing great in exports. To me, its the third or fourth best plane in the world and the Mirages have a long list of foreign operators.
I'm Pretty sure there are about 290 to be built and delivered.

Absolutely, the F/A 22 is as you described. I tried to stress the point but evidently was a little to strong in my wording and ADMIN decided to kill me. I have learned to take my wording down a notch or to so the Aussies don't penalize me. Have a nice day!

 

[f-22fan12]

nfloorl:

Absolutely, the F/A 22 is as you described. I tried to stress the point but evidently was a little to strong in my wording and ADMIN decided to kill me. I have learned to take my wording down a notch or to so the Aussies don't penalize me. Have a nice day!

Thank you for agreeing the F-22A is superior. Its supercruise, stealth, and agility make it unbeatable. And yes, watch for the Aussie Admins.

Mod edit: Watch out for the fearsome Aussie's alright...

 

[shodj]

The Rafale is a true omnirole airplane. You can always find another to be better in a particular situation. But actualy, there is no other plane that can do as well in varied situations (the f35 will). That what makes it the best plane in the world.