China is working on two new classes of submarines. The first is the new Shang Class (NATO codename) attack submarine. The Shang class is said to have performence equal to Victor III class submarines of the Soviet Union/Russia. The second is the Jin Class (NATO codename.) The Jin class is set to carry the JL-2 SLBM. It has a long range reach and would certainly increase the PLAN's strategic capabilities. Does anyone know how these subs stack up to modern western subs.(type 212, Virginia, Akula)
Will China's new generation of submarines be as advanced as modern Western designs?
- Thread starter f-22fan12
- Start date
nz enthusiast
New Member
I imagine the only thing holding it back could POSSIBLY be the noise it produces. If anything that was probably the most significant difference between US and USSR submarines in the Cold War and I have this hunch that the Chinese might continue that trend.
contedicavour
New Member
It would be interesting to know to what extent Russia is willing to help the Chinese shipbuilding industry in developing designs of the same capability as a Akula-II or Severodvinsk.
Despite gains from the price of oil and natural gas, Russia will have trouble matching China's ever increasing defence budgets. If Russia gives away the technological edge, one day they may regret it.
I'd expect the new Chinese SSNs to be comparable to the later Victor-III or the earliest Akula-I, not more.
cheers
Despite gains from the price of oil and natural gas, Russia will have trouble matching China's ever increasing defence budgets. If Russia gives away the technological edge, one day they may regret it.
I'd expect the new Chinese SSNs to be comparable to the later Victor-III or the earliest Akula-I, not more.
cheers
Sansei442/100
New Member
I wonder if the Russians are going to assist with the Type 095-if I was Russian I wouldn't
Anyway, have there been any confirmed SLBM launches from the 094 yet or are they afraid to come out of their Bohai Sea 'bastion' and face the Seawolf SSNs?
I wonder if the Russians are going to assist with the Type 095-if I was Russian I wouldn't
I would and I would charge big money for it... by the time they understand that tehnology Russian research centars will developt newer ones.. and so on ...either way Russia is helping China , specialy Rubin design buiro.
For one thing the Chinese are more than capable of making seven bladed skewed propellers. These propeller designs are much more quieter but harder to make without the precision tooling. Hence the 80's furor in the US Congress when Toshiba sold a precision machine tool to Russia that was said to be used to make propellers which end up in the Akula to help make it the quietest Russian nuclear sub yet.
Nowadays, the props are more prolific and in more than just the Akula. The Kilo 636s have them, including all the ones sold to China.
The Chinese uses the same props on the Song class subs. Also on the Yuan class. By inference no doubt they would end up on the 093 and 094. Not only do the Chinese have the machines that can make the props, they can also make these machines by themselves without importation.
why would they get Russian assistance if their requirements are going to be higher than what the Russians are going for?I wonder if the Russians are going to assist with the Type 095-if I was Russian I wouldn't
Anyway, have there been any confirmed SLBM launches from the 094 yet or are they afraid to come out of their Bohai Sea 'bastion' and face the Seawolf SSNs?
badguy2000
New Member
JL2 has been tested several time.but they usually are low ballistic test.I wonder if the Russians are going to assist with the Type 095-if I was Russian I wouldn't
Anyway, have there been any confirmed SLBM launches from the 094 yet or are they afraid to come out of their Bohai Sea 'bastion' and face the Seawolf SSNs?
Chinese always keeps a low profile ,which is quite different from their RUssian counterpart.
An arms control"expert" has just started this series on chinese ssbn:
http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/1581/will-chinas-deterrent-go-to-sea-094-ssbn-1
http://www.armscontrolwonk.com/1581/will-chinas-deterrent-go-to-sea-094-ssbn-1
In the "Expo of National Defense and Armed Forces Achievements since New China's Foundation" held in Beijing, Type 093 nuclear-powered submarine is exposed by a photo of its surface sailing state. The photo has no explanation of the sub's designation name but a unclear comment: "New Type Nuclear Submarine", because China never open the fresh weapon's exact model. The distinguished appearance comparing with Type 091 sub, however, tells that the boat in the photo is the legendary Type 093 attack nuclear submarine.
The most notable change in Type 093 submarine is the disappearance of controlling plane on sub's sail. Previously an unconfirmed blurred image of Type 093 submarine on Internet also corroborates the change. If the Type 093 sub uses "bow diving planes" like U.S. navy Virginia class submarines, the main reason is Type 093 has a smaller "conning tower" with no space for rudder steering gear. PLA navy has known the fact that a decreased sized sub sail can reduce the noise and resistance force when in underwater maneuver.
someone interested can see photos and my detailed article in my blog.
The most notable change in Type 093 submarine is the disappearance of controlling plane on sub's sail. Previously an unconfirmed blurred image of Type 093 submarine on Internet also corroborates the change. If the Type 093 sub uses "bow diving planes" like U.S. navy Virginia class submarines, the main reason is Type 093 has a smaller "conning tower" with no space for rudder steering gear. PLA navy has known the fact that a decreased sized sub sail can reduce the noise and resistance force when in underwater maneuver.
someone interested can see photos and my detailed article in my blog.
sorry, thats plain wrong. acoustic transmission issues have little to do with sail size. they do however get significantly influenced by design. More to the point, that sail design is an ideal noise maker in a contemp sense.
sail planes or bow planes influence manouvre characteristics.
the actual design of that PLAN boat shows no contemp design influence at an acoustic minimisation level.
I'm not so sure that this is entirely true. China was importing US made milling machines for complex designs as recently as Nov 2006 (according to Modern Steel Construction) I've misplaced my copy, but I think it was the December edition. These machines have been used for making complex designs (like propellors and complex angle components in aircraft and ships) in the past. In fact the sale of this particular machine caused some grief as it clearly was dual use technology - and thus questionable as an export item.
Remember that Chinas capacity to build complex airframes was also due to the importation of Cincinnatti 5 Axis presses also made in the US. These machines cannot be copied yet (or they still wouldn't be buying them)
As long as the discussion is broad based with respect to technologies and competencies - rather than "my gun is louder than your gun" then the thread will survive a lockdown.
any discussion about submarines will be extremely lightweight anyway - as no one in the know is going to say much in an open forum.
its certainly possible to make general comment on the obvious design issues etc... but as for systems etc... the right people will stay zippered.
These are old news. Though Chinese factories like to use US made machine tools due to familiarity, brand strength and recognition, local manufacturers are catching up. However, restrictions have made it very difficult to import US tools with potentially dual use aspects which makes repeat buys like the Cinci 5 axis machines difficult to happen.
Here is good PDF.
http://www.amtonline.org/document_display.cfm?section_id=93&document_id=40147&top=0&level=
In page 12, as of 17 identified local manufacturers of machine tools, seven produce those with 5 axis capability, including one identified with the Defense ministry.
Last edited:
.
if china is importing complex tools from the U.S , then they must be up to something.
how does chinese SSKs compare with those of thr west ??
iam asking this beacause american SSK tech is next to nothing, although the americans r world leaders in SSN designs.
how does the yuan class compare with something like the MARLIN.
an analysis would be great
.
if china is importing complex tools from the U.S , then they must be up to something.
how does chinese SSKs compare with those of thr west ??
iam asking this beacause american SSK tech is next to nothing, although the americans r world leaders in SSN designs.
how does the yuan class compare with something like the MARLIN.
an analysis would be great
.