New major military powers

Status
Not open for further replies.

mexsoldier

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #161
im not saying chinese will attack...

im just saying that russians don't have enough communication lines to the east of their country, the most developed part of the country is the west, but is from the central, north and east(siberia) where the major reserves of natural resources are found, and there is no town in 200 miles from another, there is the most vulnerable part of russia, anybody could start an invasion from there and russians never will know until 1 or 2 days, because of the lack of communications,(this is just figurative, everybody knows RADAR)but i mean that russia is vulnerable from that part of their country and the chinese is just an example of the thing any country could do(not any but at least china or USA), anyways is hard to advance more than 1000 miles inside of russia without be united states...and good scarfs...:)
 

mexsoldier

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #162
and yeah, it is from any country just suicide...

because russia is the second largest present power!!! even UK, France and Germany are afraid of russian bombs...:nutkick
 

mexsoldier

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #163
and finally...

you think russian should improve their communication lines to secure their territories?...
 

XaNDeR

New Member
im just saying that russians don't have enough communication lines to the east of their country, the most developed part of the country is the west, but is from the central, north and east(siberia) where the major reserves of natural resources are found, and there is no town in 200 miles from another, there is the most vulnerable part of russia, anybody could start an invasion from there and russians never will know until 1 or 2 days, because of the lack of communications,(this is just figurative, everybody knows RADAR)but i mean that russia is vulnerable from that part of their country and the chinese is just an example of the thing any country could do(not any but at least china or USA), anyways is hard to advance more than 1000 miles inside of russia without be united states...and good scarfs...:)


mexsoldier you lack of understanding of china's millitary
You said Russia can't know if china will attack them from south , and china has advantage of suprize , well that is very false..

As of right now, by treaty, both Russian and Chinese formations are to be stationed 100 miles from their respective borders. The only forces accepted by both sides are border patrols.
So if china starts moving divisions past the 100 miles , its gonna give russia the heads up , and they could ready themselfs or even prepare the guards army.

And your talking about 1000 miles , i know you said its very hard , but China can't even get past 100.
With the Military Regions that borders with Russia, ONLY the 38 and 39 Group Armies have a chance of going into Siberia. The rest is foot infantry and also stationed 100 miles back from the Russian boarder.
And even the 38 and 39 Group army's , by doctrine, will not go beyond 100 miles into Russia.

Russia still has pretty good logistics inside and can move divisions fastly to aproach chinese army's , and they even have divisions stationed near the south , and chinese 38 and 39 Group army's would need to get more than 100 miles inside Russia , which given by the Chinese doctrine is not possible , but lets say even if they managed to get there they would stand no chance even against that distrinct.
And besides your scenario just does not fit in PLA plans. If anything, their focus is Taiwan, not Russia and while they're building examples of an amphibious force, they're nowhere close in the numbers needed.

Here is a regiment that China would likely encounter , that is if they could get past 100 miles

Cossack Separate Motor Rifle Regiment, Borzya
29th Army, Ulan-Ude
5th Guards Tank Division
245 Motor Rifle Division
11 Air Assault Brigade
36th Army, Borzya
131st Motor Rifle Division, Sretensk
41st Army, Novosibirsk
85th Motor Rifle Division
74th Motor Rifle Brigade, Yurga(Constant readiness

Basicaly that means China could have only little chance with 3 engineering regiments and 2 corps attacking russia , before they get at around 100 miles into territory to meet resistance the russians would already have 15 divisions backed up by 25 gun brigades and they would make baked goats out of them , Chinese could also have no use from their airforce since they would have to get past vast SAM sites , and there is no chance they would get past them with the current airforce , im not even mentioning Russian airforce .


So see , china lacks the logistics or the military to even come more than 100 miles into Russia , and they have no real chance of surviving , further from that China has no desire nor any plans or anything that would even slightly have their interest to attack Russia , so there is really no threat from there ..
 
Last edited:

mexsoldier

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #165
quoting myself

im just saying that russians don't have enough communication lines to the east of their country, the most developed part of the country is the west, but is from the central, north and east(siberia) where the major reserves of natural resources are found, and there is no town in 200 miles from another, there is the most vulnerable part of russia, anybody could start an invasion from there and russians never will know until 1 or 2 days, because of the lack of communications,(this is just figurative, everybody knows RADAR)but i mean that russia is vulnerable from that part of their country and the chinese is just an example of the thing any country could do(not any but at least china or USA), anyways is hard to advance more than 1000 miles inside of russia without be united states...and good scarfs...:)
ok, all of the stuff you are saying is true, but i think that, or im writting bad, or yu are reading bad, russia is by far superior than china, im just saying that russia is more vulnerable in that part of their country than in the west(moskow and san petersbourg).

everybody have a good night, im going to sleep...(9:44 in indio, CA)
 

XaNDeR

New Member
ok, all of the stuff you are saying is true, but i think that, or im writting bad, or yu are reading bad, russia is by far superior than china, im just saying that russia is more vulnerable in that part of their country than in the west(moskow and san petersbourg).

everybody have a good night, im going to sleep...(9:44 in indio, CA)
Its true what your saying that most of Russian's divisions are in europe part of Russia , but as i wrote before , since they treaty betwen Russia and China restricts them to have army's 100 miles from each respective boarders , even if China would have a evil plan to want to attack Russia , when they crossed 100 miles mark , they would send a clear message don't you think , and before they could cross another 200 miles , they would already be waited by enough divisions and gun brigades to whipe them out..

And even that is not the point , China does not have any interest in attacking Russia , nor any desire , so even that makes the south boarder of Russia pretty safe don't you think , who else would pose a threat , mongolia ? ;)
 

swerve

Super Moderator
because russia is the second largest present power!!! even UK, France and Germany are afraid of russian bombs...:nutkick
Nonsense! Russia no longer has the military strength to conquer Europe, even if NATO did not exist. And nukes are not a threat against nuclear-armed countries. We stopped being scared of Russia quite a while ago.
 

Snayke

New Member
The USA actually now has nuclear primacy. If the US could possibly eliminate Russian nuclear forces before they could respond.

But that's just from a article I read. Well, I think it was an essay, not an article.
 

XaNDeR

New Member
Nonsense! Russia no longer has the military strength to conquer Europe, even if NATO did not exist. And nukes are not a threat against nuclear-armed countries. We stopped being scared of Russia quite a while ago.
Are you saying Europe is secure from Russia if USA did not get involved , if we are talking about a conventional war?
 

Snayke

New Member
All of Europe combined outguns Russia in both numbers and technological superiority methinks. I think the EU members alone have 2.5 combat personnel or something. They are more than a match for Russia.
 

XaNDeR

New Member
All of Europe combined outguns Russia in both numbers and technological superiority methinks. I think the EU members alone have 2.5 combat personnel or something. They are more than a match for Russia.
That would be incorrect , I wont even put miself in this conversation because its pointless aswell as stupid , and far away from reality as not Russia nor Europe has no interest attacking each other , but I would only like to correct you and tell you that most of Europe are profesional soldiers , that means Russia as a conscript army could pull out over 10 million reserves , that was just based on your assumption that Europe members would outnumber them , get the point?

Oh and btw , are you joking about the tehnological supriority?
 

f-22fan12

New Member
Of course the Chinese military serves the government of China. The Australian Defence Force serves the Australian government. Do you hate the ADF as well? Also, China was in no way seen as a economic power back in the 1970s. They only began reforms in the late 1970s which is also why nations started recognising Beijing as they begun to open up. Also, the majority of Chinese people lived on the mainland. It's not a correct representation of the Chinese people when you are only recognising 40 million and ignoring the hundreds of millions.

And you said you disliked their "peaceful rise" policy, which is why the assumption was made you'd rather China have an aggressive foreign policy.
I don't BELIEVE it. I don't think China CAN be peaceful. Also their military is loyal to the Communist Party. NOT the country. Where as the ADF is loyal to Australia, not any particular gov. Enough with this though.
 

f-22fan12

New Member
Its true what your saying that most of Russian's divisions are in europe part of Russia , but as i wrote before , since they treaty betwen Russia and China restricts them to have army's 100 miles from each respective boarders , even if China would have a evil plan to want to attack Russia , when they crossed 100 miles mark , they would send a clear message don't you think , and before they could cross another 200 miles , they would already be waited by enough divisions and gun brigades to whipe them out..

And even that is not the point , China does not have any interest in attacking Russia , nor any desire , so even that makes the south boarder of Russia pretty safe don't you think , who else would pose a threat , mongolia ? ;)
First, why wouldn't China, a country with almost no natural resources not want to attack a mineral rich country? And you second post. Europe is not uner any threat from Russia. And tech. superiority is no joke. The Europeans are better. Just add their defence budgets up and compare them.
 

merocaine

New Member
First, why wouldn't China, a country with almost no natural resources not want to attack a mineral rich country?
Because they can buy them,the Russians have not cut off supplies to them.

Thats like saying Japan is going to attack russia, or germany is, or whatever.
It sounds like you've been conditioned into thinking China is bound to embark on a war of terrotorial expansion.
Where is the evidence of this? It is a fantasy.
 

swerve

Super Moderator
First, why wouldn't China, a country with almost no natural resources not want to attack a mineral rich country? .
Why wouldn't Italy (Greece, Spain, France), a country with no oil, not want to attack Libya?

Etc., etc. You are assuming that every state is predatory & disposed to violence. Where is your evidence? China can, as Merocaine points out, buy all it wants from Russia. Russian gas, etc., wouldn't be cheaper if the wells were in Chinese territory, & the Chinese balance of payments can easily bear the outflow of hard currency.

When do you expect China to invade Brazil, for its beef, soybeans, sugar etc? Zambia, for its copper?

Wars are expensive & unpredictable. Why fight for what you can afford to buy? Do you look for an opportunity to rob, every time you go shopping?
 

Chrom

New Member
I don't BELIEVE it. I don't think China CAN be peaceful. Also their military is loyal to the Communist Party. NOT the country. Where as the ADF is loyal to Australia, not any particular gov. Enough with this though.
Thats why I don't think USA CAN be peaceful. Also their military is loyal to Bush's "democratic" goverment and NOT the country. Where as the ADF is loyal to Australia, not any particular gov. Enough with this though.

Well, and with that world-vision, you are doubting what USA attacked Iraq NOT for oil? And what China threats Russia MORE than USA or Europe - as these have even less resources (and much more military power) than China?


On a serios note - to get any porfit China would need to coquer half Russia, not just some border areas. Only few Russia natural are resourses located near Chinese border. Moreover, China would need years of very expencive infrastructure building to get any of these resoucres - and in that time it will experience more natural recource shortage than ever.

I dont believe China is any threat to Russia. Certainly, China is less a threat than any "democratic" west country. That said, i dont belive western countries pose any military threat to Russia either - and vice-versa.
 

mexsoldier

New Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #180
that's true

Why wouldn't Italy (Greece, Spain, France), a country with no oil, not want to attack Libya?

Etc., etc. You are assuming that every state is predatory & disposed to violence. Where is your evidence? China can, as Merocaine points out, buy all it wants from Russia. Russian gas, etc., wouldn't be cheaper if the wells were in Chinese territory, & the Chinese balance of payments can easily bear the outflow of hard currency.

When do you expect China to invade Brazil, for its beef, soybeans, sugar etc? Zambia, for its copper?

Wars are expensive & unpredictable.
Why fight for what you can afford to buy? Do you look for an opportunity to rob, every time you go shopping?
that's very true, in my other post i just was saying that Russia was more vulnerable in the south or the east because of bad conditions or even lack of communication lines...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top