Possible defence co-op between Indonesia and India

[drg]

Here:
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200706230341.htm
My personal interest in this article stems from the fact that China was attempting to sell Indonesia weapons recently, but Indonesia was, how shall we say, a little reluctant to buy. Also Singapore and Indonesia are having a litlle tiff in regard to a Defence Co-operation Pact that both sides don't seem particularly keen on signing.
I would also say that this development hasn't taken me by surprise, considering Indonesia's past relations with China, that Indonesia would easily favour working with India as opposed to China, in defence technology.
Suspicion in general towards China manifests clearly in Vietnam and Indonesia, or generally wherever the 'Overseas Chinese' (successful Chinese entrepeneurs)can be found in SE ASia (Philippines, Indonesia etc).
Phew...that was a lot to cover...

 

[Todjaeger]

From a political/social perspective I would have to question whether or not India and Indonesia could develop solid and/or lasting defence ties. India is predominantly Hindu, while Indonesia is the largest (by population) muslim nation in the world. Given the issues between India and Pakistan, I'm not sure how well a cooperative agreement between India and Indonesia would be received on the "home front" as it were.

Not to mention, what would be the benefits for each nation to enter into such an agreement?

-Cheers

 

[radiosilence]

Here:
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200706230341.htm
My personal interest in this article stems from the fact that China was attempting to sell Indonesia weapons recently, but Indonesia was, how shall we say, a little reluctant to buy. Also Singapore and Indonesia are having a litlle tiff in regard to a Defence Co-operation Pact that both sides don't seem particularly keen on signing.
I would also say that this development hasn't taken me by surprise, considering Indonesia's past relations with China, that Indonesia would easily favour working with India as opposed to China, in defence technology.
Suspicion in general towards China manifests clearly in Vietnam and Indonesia, or generally wherever the 'Overseas Chinese' (successful Chinese entrepeneurs)can be found in SE ASia (Philippines, Indonesia etc).
Phew...that was a lot to cover...

The thing is China can offer Indonesia more defence related items than what India can offer.

 

[kams]

AFAIK, one area the co-operation may fructify is Maintenance of Sukhoi. As for the rest - who knows. I really don't know much about the dynamics of China-Indonesian and Singapore-Indonesian relationships. But keep in mind that India and Singapore have developed pretty mutual understanding on security/defence related issues.

 

[Todjaeger]

To be honest, I don't think Indian will be of much use in maintaining Indonesia's Su aircraft at present. IIRC Indonesia has received 2, or perhaps 4 now, out of an order of 10, from two different variants. A defence co-op agreement to cover Indian assistance in maintaining so few aircraft IMV wouldn't make sense.

I would think it more likely that there would be some cooperation between India and Australia, Singapore or Malaysia. Partially due to some common history (all were formerly under British rule) as well as elements of strategic outlook in terms of defence cooperation. Keep in mind, India isn't in a top position in terms of military tech or industry, but I would say there are areas where it is quite good. With that, and the overall size of India's armed forces, it can make for a formidable ally. What is less certain in my mind is what advantages Indonesia would bring to reach any agreement with India.

-Cheers

 

[Aussie Digger]

OMG, Carlo Kopp will have a fit now, our 2 biggest "threats" collaborating... :shudder

 

[mexsoldier]

india couldn't have any important agreement with indonesia

they are veeeeery very different countries, india is hinduist, indonesia is islamic, islamics hate every person that thinks different to them, or believes in other faith, a military agreement could be good for the relations in that part of the world, but definitively i think is almost imposible, there is first a military agreement with taiwan , philippines, or singapore than with indonesia.

 

[kams]

OMG, Carlo Kopp will have a fit now, our 2 biggest "threats" collaborating... :shudder

Ahhh now he can make a case for F-44 'Super Raptor'. for Australia

Mexsoldier,

Welcome to DT. Please go easy on religeon part. Here we strictly deal with only Defence and Stategis issues. Thanks.

 

[mexsoldier]

im sorry

im sorry, as i said in another post, they are a different culture and we should understand them, but ok, i will be easier in religion concern

 

[XEROX]

Isnt Indonesia on the list of frendly countries intrested in BrahMos cruise missile

 

[Snayke]

Here:
http://www.hindu.com/thehindu/holnus/001200706230341.htm
My personal interest in this article stems from the fact that China was attempting to sell Indonesia weapons recently, but Indonesia was, how shall we say, a little reluctant to buy. Also Singapore and Indonesia are having a litlle tiff in regard to a Defence Co-operation Pact that both sides don't seem particularly keen on signing.
I would also say that this development hasn't taken me by surprise, considering Indonesia's past relations with China, that Indonesia would easily favour working with India as opposed to China, in defence technology.
Suspicion in general towards China manifests clearly in Vietnam and Indonesia, or generally wherever the 'Overseas Chinese' (successful Chinese entrepeneurs)can be found in SE ASia (Philippines, Indonesia etc).
Phew...that was a lot to cover...

Not just entrepreneurs, but politicians. Singapore's current Prime Minister is Chinese as is the Governor General. Thailand's former President was Chinese also. They had Chinese backgrounds, that is.

As for suspicion, I never knew that the Indonesia's had bad relations with the Chinese. What does it stem from?

And I doubt whether this will last anyway. I've never witnessed any great ties between the two nations. Kinda just neutral to each other.

 

[sashikanth]

First of all let me clarify that though India is largely hindu, India has the second largest number of muslims in the world only after indonesia.India is democratic country and has a muslim as the President of India.Therefore religion should never be a problem in maintaining relations with foreigh countries.

Now, coming to the point, Indonesia will be very crutial for china.One simple reason,
Imagine china is at war with India, the one crutial thing that will be important for china is to retain the supply route for the most esestial commidity-FUEL.
If india can impose a naval blockade in the indian ocean, india will gain the upper had over the war, simply because the crutial supply line is blocked.Hence china wants to woo other countries in the indian ocean belt as to stand a chance of of retaining supplys as a result of better relations.
Again, thats the same thing Indians are doing.The 'look east' policy seems to be working for the indians. The future will be interesting to see as to what happens.......

 

[Snayke]

Are there any pipes going through to China from their western borders? I'm not sure if there's much energy trade from Russia but I believe there is at least one large pipe running through central Asia into China. Not sure though. As with the fuel supplies, I believe fuel is delivered to Singapore and bought from Singapore?

 

[Schumacher]

Plans for pipelines to the west of China include those thru Pakistan, Myanmar & the one from Central Asia. Pakistan's is the one least likely to come to fruition due to the volatile situation there. Talks on the one from Russia has been going on for ages, seems they can't agree on the prices for the gas.

 

[Schumacher]

Not just entrepreneurs, but politicians. Singapore's current Prime Minister is Chinese as is the Governor General. Thailand's former President was Chinese also. They had Chinese backgrounds, that is.

As for suspicion, I never knew that the Indonesia's had bad relations with the Chinese. What does it stem from?

And I doubt whether this will last anyway. I've never witnessed any great ties between the two nations. Kinda just neutral to each other.

Mainly due to the 1965 coup in Indonesia which the Indonesian communist party PKI was accused of masterminding. China was a big supporter of PKI & Sino-Indon tie was broken after that. Only restored in the 90s.
Being a middle-level power with interests in both South China Sea & Indian Ocean, I think Indonesia will be wary of any big power becoming too dominant in either area.

 

[Musashi_kenshin]

Given the issues between India and Pakistan, I'm not sure how well a cooperative agreement between India and Indonesia would be received on the "home front" as it were.

Although some religious "zealots" would get stressed, I don't think the fact Indonesia is Muslim would be a problem. For example, India gets on better with Bangladesh (also Muslim) than it does Pakistan.

The Pakistani problem is one of history, territory and security - India doesn't have those sorts of problems with Indonesia.

 

[Schumacher]

Although some religious "zealots" would get stressed, I don't think the fact Indonesia is Muslim would be a problem. For example, India gets on better with Bangladesh (also Muslim) than it does Pakistan.
................

If you know anything about India-Bangladesh relations, you wouldn't use it as an example of good ties at all.
It's only better as compared to India-Pakistan, which is really not saying much.

 

[Snayke]

Which is exactly why he said:

For example, India gets on better with Bangladesh (also Muslim) than it does Pakistan.

 

[Schumacher]

Which is exactly why he said:

For example, India gets on better with Bangladesh (also Muslim) than it does Pakistan.

He was trying to use India-Bangladesh as an example of how religion may not stop India, Indonesia from having good ties.
I'm pointing out India-Bangladesh is not an example of good ties at all.

 

[radiosilence]

Sometime ago the Chinese were proposing to build a canal across Thailand’s Kra Isthmus which would enable ships to bypass the chokepoint at the Strait of Malacca. The project is still being debated in Thailand. If this project comes to fruition it would be more difficult to blockage Chinese energy supplies.