The Australian Army independently developed its own HE round for the 2 Pdr. It was a base fused round, designed to penetrate the walls of earthern bunkers of the type the Japanese preferred to us. It was tested against the nose fused round developed by the British in 1943 and issued in early 1944. The Mathilda could also be armed with a 3in CS Howitzer, which fired a HE round (but no AP).
The Australian Army independently developed its own HE round for the 2 Pdr. It was a base fused round, designed to penetrate the walls of earthern bunkers of the type the Japanese preferred to us. It was tested against the nose fused round developed by the British in 1943 and issued in early 1944. The Mathilda could also be armed with a 3in CS Howitzer, which fired a HE round (but no AP).
Australia turns down surplus Dutch PzH2000 howitzers
I'm not a subscriber
http://jdw.janes.com/public/jdw/index.shtml
The Australian Defence Force (ADF) has declined a Dutch offer of 18 Kraus-Maffei Wegmann PzH2000 155 mm self-propelled howitzers (SPHs) to meet a major part...
29-Jun-2007
According to http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/lsd/land17/land17.cfm
"It is expected that a Request for Tender will be released in mid 2007."
Does this mean an announcement will be made soon?
It's a bit of a pity that the PzH2000 wasn't selected (which is a presumption of mine given that the Dutch offer was declined). I thought that design had a lot of merit. It was probably one of the few with sufficient propellant volume for future ER rounds.
rb
I'm not a subscriber
http://jdw.janes.com/public/jdw/index.shtml
The Australian Defence Force (ADF) has declined a Dutch offer of 18 Kraus-Maffei Wegmann PzH2000 155 mm self-propelled howitzers (SPHs) to meet a major part...
29-Jun-2007
According to http://www.defence.gov.au/dmo/lsd/land17/land17.cfm
"It is expected that a Request for Tender will be released in mid 2007."
Does this mean an announcement will be made soon?
It's a bit of a pity that the PzH2000 wasn't selected (which is a presumption of mine given that the Dutch offer was declined). I thought that design had a lot of merit. It was probably one of the few with sufficient propellant volume for future ER rounds.
rb
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
The particular Dutch DEAL wasn't chosen. PZH-2000 is still in the running for Land 17.
Apparently the deal wasn't done because the in-service support requirements couldn't be costed accurately enough.
What that means for the long term future of the PZH-2000 and it's potential employment by Australia, I don't know, but it doesn't look good.
Hopefully all it means, is that Archer, which looks like being ordered by both Sweden (order already placed) AND Norway, is now becoming the favoured platform.
I don't overly care for the K-9, with it's second armoured vehicle required for EACH platform. I know that's meaningless, but it seems to be the least capable platform out of the contenders.
It's the cheapest for a REASON people...
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Quite certain that Denmark will get the Archer too.
Can you clarify what you mean by "sufficient propellant volume" ? The PzH has a chamber which conforms to the Joint Ballistics Memorandum of Understanding (JBMOU) which means its the same as every other 155 tube in use by the UK, US, France etc. I cant remember off the top of my head who all the signatories of this are.
Also, future Extended Range rounds from 155 tubes wont get this range from increased muzzle velocities but by having something on the Projectile itself which increases the range, Base bleed, Rocket Assist, Deployable wings or a combination of all.
The towed portion of the Land 17 program doesnt seem to get much discussion. Is the Triple 7 the only real contender?
Riiiiggghhhht . . . Everyone from Nykøbing to Nordkapp now has Cv90 & Leopard 2. Archer is next, is it? What else are you all standardising on? AMOS? AMV? Gripen?
Sure Denmark is part of the development of the Archer, but no orders have been placed by now. There have also been talks about buying towed artillery, that can be airlifted by the Merlin helicopters.
So the final decision have yet to be seen.
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Nope the Singapore Technologies Pegasus 155mm towed gun is reportedly to be offered as well as an upgraded M-198 featuring a South Korean designed upgrade (as performed on their KH179 Howizers) of our existing M-198's...
Cheers
AD
OK, I can't put my finger on the PzH info straight away. The article that I thought had it, doesn't.
http://www.adbr.com.au/download/2603.pdf
(The chamber that is referred to here, was I presumed, referring to the propellant chamber.) but does mention that there is a JBMoU minimum of 23 litres. Apparently the Archer has a 25.4 litre capacity. (page 4, right most column, ~3rd paragraph). Which may later prove useful for certain projectiles - Excalibur, HEER, VLAP.
I need to re acquaint myself with some facts and figures!
rb
Apparently PzH chamber is 23 litres. So there you go, I was confusing it with the Archer.
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The particular Dutch DEAL wasn't chosen. PZH-2000 is still in the running for Land 17.
Apparently the deal wasn't done because the in-service support requirements couldn't be costed accurately enough.
What that means for the long term future of the PZH-2000 and it's potential employment by Australia, I don't know, but it doesn't look good.
Hopefully all it means, is that Archer, which looks like being ordered by both Sweden (order already placed) AND Norway, is now becoming the favoured platform.
I don't overly care for the K-9, with it's second armoured vehicle required for EACH platform. I know that's meaningless, but it seems to be the least capable platform out of the contenders.
It's the cheapest for a REASON people...
The K9/K10 setup is given a favourable spin at
http://www.adbr.com.au/download/2606.pdf.
As a side note, somewhere I was reading intimated that the ADF might have the Copperhead 155mm pgm in its arsenal.
Is this true?
rb
Copperhead is due for replacement by Excalibur plus "other" rounds.
The Copperheads were procured for use by the M198's.
Regards,
BUG
A
Aussie Digger
Guest
Yes, a "limited" quantity of Copperhead rounds were procured for use from the M198 155mm howitzers during the early to mid 90's.
For a time, Army held (what it claimed) was the record for the longest shot from an artillery fired PGM of over 16k's.
The kinds of capability to be acquired under Land 17 kind of put that into perspective don't they???
Defence buys Bushmaster
Defence buys Bushmasters
August 19, 2007
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/defence-buys-bushmasters/2007/08/18/1186857836986.html
Defence buys Bushmasters
August 19, 2007
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/defence-buys-bushmasters/2007/08/18/1186857836986.html
So what does this bring the total ADF Bushmaster order to? There has been a number of announcements about "new" orders. The Government tends to re-announce orders to get maximum mileage out of it so it does muddy the water a bit. Has anyone got an idea of actual numbers in service and on order?
Hooroo
MARKMILES77
Well-Known Member
The Bushmasters have been ordered in three batches.
1. The original order was for 299.
2. A second order for 143 was announced as part of HNA.
3. This new order for 250 does not relate to the two previous orders, it is a completely seperate order, not a re-announcemount.
This brings the total ordered to 692.
The original 299 have been deliverd and I believe they have started delivery of the 143 second batch.
Note the press release said "at least 250" so there could be even more ordered!
1. The original order was for 299.
2. A second order for 143 was announced as part of HNA.
3. This new order for 250 does not relate to the two previous orders, it is a completely seperate order, not a re-announcemount.
This brings the total ordered to 692.
The original 299 have been deliverd and I believe they have started delivery of the 143 second batch.
Note the press release said "at least 250" so there could be even more ordered!
Thanks for this info. The new order will provide a significant increase in the number of Bushmasters available. Has it been estimated what the optimal number of Bushmasters is to fully support the expanded army?
Tas
its managed to drag the line further then anticipated, and may be trying to create more orders overseas, with the dutch being given new models destined for the ADF, and our order being added to the line up.
Glad to see the SMH is up to date, if i'm not mistaken, that "order" disappeared in favour of a US IMV.
Glad to see the SMH is up to date, if i'm not mistaken, that "order" disappeared in favour of a US IMV.
MARKMILES77
Well-Known Member
I don't know but 700 or so is far more than I ever expected to be ordered!
Now they just need to place an order for some Copperheads!
If Thales/ADI/Oshkosh win Project Overlander their plan is for 700 Copperheads to be supplied as part of the medium category of utility trucks.