Egypt agreed to buy the Buk-M1-2, the Tor-M1 and Silka

[T-95]

http://www.kommersant.com/p718548/r_527/Egypt_arms_trade/

Heres the link to the article which was from some Russian newspaper.

Excerpt:

Military technical cooperation forms the basis of Russian-Egyptian economic relations today. The Egyptian Army is still armed with Soviet weapons, and those need modernization. Last year, Moscow concluded several contracts with Cairo to provide Tor-M1, Buk-M1-2 Kvadrat and Silka antiaircraft missile complexes and 600 portable Igla missile systems.

 

[Izzy1]

I take it Egypt will be looking towards Russia more and more for new kit as it seems US-Egyptian relations are on the slide again. I read earlier you are interested in Mig-29/35, what other Russian kit is Cairo looking at?

Semi-related article in this week's Jane's Defence Weekly:

MIDDLE EAST/AFRICA
Date Posted: 29-Jun-2007


Jane's Defence Weekly - July 04, 2007


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

US votes to withhold military aid until Egypt instigates reforms

Alon Ben-David Correspondent
Tel Aviv

The US House of Representatives has voted to withhold USD200 million out of Egypt's USD1.3 billion military aid in 2008 until Egypt implements human rights reforms and exerts better control over the Gaza Strip border.

The decision, part of the US 2008 Foreign Aid bill passed at the House on 22 June, marks the first time that the US has threatened to inhibit military aid to Egypt or tie it to Egypt's domestic policies.

According to the bill, which still requires Senate approval, the sum of USD200 million out of Egypt's Foreign Military Financing (FMF) package will be withheld until Egypt:

— enacts and implements a new judicial authority law that protects the independence of the judiciary;

— reviews criminal procedures and trains police leadership in modern policing to curb police abuses; and

— detects and destroys the smuggling network and tunnels that lead from Egypt to Gaza.

The ban on the transfer of funds to Egypt will be lifted only after the Secretary of State clarifies to Congress that Egypt has met those requirements.

Since the 1979 peace accord with Israel, Egypt has been the second largest recipient of US military aid, but this decision signals the growing dissatisfaction in Congress with Egypt and the loosening of ties between the two countries.

At the same time, US President George W Bush has pledged to increase military aid to Israel over the course of the next decade.

Following a meeting with Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert on 20 June, Bush stated he is committed to reaching a new 10-year agreement that will give Israel the increased assistance it requires to meet the new threats and challenges it faces.

He said he will send Under Secretary of State Nicolas Burns and an interagency team to Israel in July "to lead discussions aimed at concluding an agreement soon".

Israel is requesting to increase the annual FMF package, currently set at USD2.4 billion, by an additional USD50 million annually over the next 10 years, setting it at USD2.9 billion in 2017.

"I am strongly committed to Israel's security and viability as a Jewish state and to the maintenance of its qualitative military edge," said Bush's statement.

This year was the final year of another decade-long agreement signed in 1997, at a time when the US provided Israel with USD1.8 billion through the FMF programme and USD1.2 billion in Economic Support Funds (ESF). The previous agreement called for a USD60 million annual increase of the FMF package to Israel, while annually reducing the ESF by USD120 million, until 2008, when no economic aid will be provided.

Under the existing agreement, most of the FMF funds are restricted to procurement in the US and Israel is allowed to use only USD640 million for procurement elsewhere.

 

[T-95]

I take it Egypt will be looking towards Russia more and more for new kit as it seems US-Egyptian relations are on the slide again. I read earlier you are interested in Mig-29/35, what other Russian kit is Cairo looking at?

Semi-related article in this week's Jane's Defence Weekly:

There is NO WAY Egypt's buying the MiG-35 we're not even buying the MiG-29M/M2 we're buying the SMT.

The arms purchases could very well be the true reason behind the $200 million cut but who knows, the US has been preaching a whole bunch of stuff about "democracy" to countries that aren't as obedient to them as they would like.

 

[contedicavour]

I wonder if the US Congress decision to postpone funding for Egyptian military purchases is a strange way to put pressure on Egypt to stop buying Russian material...
Russian material is surely cheaper than American, but if the American comes with long term almost 0 interest rate and huge rebates... then I don't see what is the point with buying MIG29SMT, SAMs, etc

cheers

 

[T-95]

I wonder if the US Congress decision to postpone funding for Egyptian military purchases is a strange way to put pressure on Egypt to stop buying Russian material...
Russian material is surely cheaper than American, but if the American comes with long term almost 0 interest rate and huge rebates... then I don't see what is the point with buying MIG29SMT, SAMs, etc

cheers

A Russian source from Mikoyan said Russia offered to build the MiG-29's in Egypt and a lot of tech transfers and a HUGE discount. And you can't deny the quality of Russian weaponry. Can you compare the MiG-29 with the F-16 that Egypt has?

For Russia it means gaining support from the leader of Arab politics as well as regaining the most powerful ally they ever had in the ME.

Russian arms for Egypt scares the US because it means the US can't put as much pressure on Egypt to keep it from turning hostile on Israel and closing the canal for the USN. It also means the quality edge that Israel has might be closed. Why do you think the US wanted us to buy the PAC-3 so much? Has the US EVER pressured us to buy advanced weaponry? It's because the US doesn't want Egypt to buy S-300 and S-400 AD's and ABM's.

The Israelis said they temporarily got an S-300 system from Croatia so they can make a decoy for F-16's and F-35's to deceive it because they thought we were going to buy it.

 

[contedicavour]

A Russian source from Mikoyan said Russia offered to build the MiG-29's in Egypt and a lot of tech transfers and a HUGE discount. And you can't deny the quality of Russian weaponry. Can you compare the MiG-29 with the F-16 that Egypt has?

For Russia it means gaining support from the leader of Arab politics as well as regaining the most powerful ally they ever had in the ME.

Russian arms for Egypt scares the US because it means the US can't put as much pressure on Egypt to keep it from turning hostile on Israel and closing the canal for the USN. It also means the quality edge that Israel has might be closed. Why do you think the US wanted us to buy the PAC-3 so much? Has the US EVER pressured us to buy advanced weaponry? It's because the US doesn't want Egypt to buy S-300 and S-400 AD's and ABM's.

The Israelis said they temporarily got an S-300 system from Croatia so they can make a decoy for F-16's and F-35's to deceive it because they thought we were going to buy it.

Well it depends which F16 we're comparing vs MIG29SMT. The latest blocks of F16 with AIM120-C/D and the latest radars are perfectly comparable with MIG29SMT and its AA-12 and AA-11 missiles.
Which technology transfer is Russia talking about ? I didn't know that Egypt had defence companies involved in aerospace / missiles construction.

cheers

 

[T-95]

Well it depends which F16 we're comparing vs MIG29SMT. The latest blocks of F16 with AIM120-C/D and the latest radars are perfectly comparable with MIG29SMT and its AA-12 and AA-11 missiles.
Which technology transfer is Russia talking about ? I didn't know that Egypt had defence companies involved in aerospace / missiles construction.

cheers

We had tech transfers for the F-16's and we build some spare parts for it. I meant those kinds of tech transfers but on larger scale. And i was comparing the MiG-29SMT with F-16 that Egypt has. AIM-7 Sparrow no HMS and AIM-9X. R-77 and R-73 with HMS, can our F-16 beat that. Plus theres no limit on Russian arms.

 

[contedicavour]

We had tech transfers for the F-16's and we build some spare parts for it. I meant those kinds of tech transfers but on larger scale. And i was comparing the MiG-29SMT with F-16 that Egypt has. AIM-7 Sparrow no HMS and AIM-9X. R-77 and R-73 with HMS, can our F-16 beat that. Plus theres no limit on Russian arms.

Ah-ha. I thought the Egyptian F16s (at least the C/Ds) carried AIM-120 A/Bs which are approx comparable with R77/AA12. If they don't then I agree with you. By the way, the EAF should also update the 35 or so Mirage 2000 to -5 standard with IR and EM Micas. The IR Mica are the most powerful IR missiles around with a much longer range than R73/AA11.

cheers

 

[T-95]

Ah-ha. I thought the Egyptian F16s (at least the C/Ds) carried AIM-120 A/Bs which are approx comparable with R77/AA12. If they don't then I agree with you. By the way, the EAF should also update the 35 or so Mirage 2000 to -5 standard with IR and EM Micas. The IR Mica are the most powerful IR missiles around with a much longer range than R73/AA11.

cheers

You're right we should it would be a lot cheaper than buying new planes plus the Mirage is great platform and I hear it's better than the F-16 in WVR combat. If we had better relations with Israel we could buy Python-5 which is the only IR seeker missile that engage from BVR. If the Rafael wasn't so expensive I would want Egypt to buy it to replace the Mirage 2000.

 

[contedicavour]

You're right we should it would be a lot cheaper than buying new planes plus the Mirage is great platform and I hear it's better than the F-16 in WVR combat. If we had better relations with Israel we could buy Python-5 which is the only IR seeker missile that engage from BVR. If the Rafael wasn't so expensive I would want Egypt to buy it to replace the Mirage 2000.

The Rafale is being more and more used for air to ground operations in the French air force (as a replacement for F1 and Jaguar). The French air force uses 2000-5 as the elite in air to air combat and will continue to do so for at least 10 years.
Regarding IR seekers engaging from BVR, I wonder if the new Iris-T wouldn't qualify as well ?

cheers

 

[aaaditya]

hey guys,doesnt egypt also operate some chinese built combat aircrafts(the j-7 derivatives of the mig21),does any one know what is the status of these aircrafts,are they still in service or retired?

 

[Viktor]

The Israelis said they temporarily got an S-300 system from Croatia so they can make a decoy for F-16's and F-35's to deceive it because they thought we were going to buy it.

Well Russia sold tehnology transfer of S-300V system whitch is more advanced than S-300PMU stationed in Croatia to finance S-300VM or Antey2500 system... so there is no fear that new system that would potentialy be sold to Egypt be imune to Israel countermaseure.

 

[T-95]

Well Russia sold tehnology transfer of S-300V system whitch is more advanced than S-300PMU stationed in Croatia to finance S-300VM or Antey2500 system... so there is no fear that new system that would potentialy be sold to Egypt be imune to Israel countermaseure.

S-400's for sale(400km range). Stop that! And please give me the link where it says you got a tech transfer because that sound HIGHLY unlikely to me for such a sensitive system. Maybe China, India or even the UAE but Croatia nfloorl:.

 

[T-95]

hey guys,doesnt egypt also operate some chinese built combat aircrafts(the j-7 derivatives of the mig21),does any one know what is the status of these aircrafts,are they still in service or retired?

Retired about a year ago along with the miG-21. Buying MiG-29's.

 

[aaaditya]

Retired about a year ago along with the miG-21. Buying MiG-29's.

thanks for the information,are they displaying any interest in the su30's?

 

[contedicavour]

Am I right if I say that to date the Egyptian air force has no fire and forget BVR missiles such as Amraam, Mica or R77/AA12 ?

cheers

 

[radiosilence]

Am I right if I say that to date the Egyptian air force has no fire and forget BVR missiles such as Amraam, Mica or R77/AA12 ?

cheers

I am not sure about Mica or R77 but i know they were sold ground-launched version of the AMRAAM in 2000 for air defence to replace the older Russian SAM-6 missile.

 

[contedicavour]

I am not sure about Mica or R77 but i know they were sold ground-launched version of the AMRAAM in 2000 for air defence to replace the older Russian SAM-6 missile.

Thanks for the info. So I suspect Congress cleared the air launched version of AIM120 as well. It would be interesting if someone knew how many F16s in the EAF use Sparrows and how many use Amraams.

cheers

 

[Viktor]

S-400's for sale(400km range). Stop that! And please give me the link where it says you got a tech transfer because that sound HIGHLY unlikely to me for such a sensitive system. Maybe China, India or even the UAE but Croatia nfloorl:.

http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20061003/54490651.html

Ignorant.

 

[T-95]

Thanks for the info. So I suspect Congress cleared the air launched version of AIM120 as well. It would be interesting if someone knew how many F16s in the EAF use Sparrows and how many use Amraams.

cheers

The EAF doesn't have fire and forget missiles (maybe on the Mirage 2000). Israel blocked the sale of the AIM-120 to Egypt.