Who can spend few Billion USD?

[Izzy1]

Play time. You're Prince Sultan. Flushed with coffers financed by high oil prices, you get too choose Saudi Arabia's defence requirements...

Saudi faces many challenges - an Internal security issue with a fluctuating problem in reagrds to AQAP (Al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsular). But most so, maintaining hegemony in Iraq and the Gulf at large.

10 Billion is the limit on defence procurement over the next five years. (MIKSA and C4I not involved) - what would you buy?

A few considerations and guidelines...

- We traditionally buy US or European equipment. Our logistics demands it. But now looking for realstic economic offset packages. Our skilled production base is however limited. Just buying 'off-the-shelf' is no longer an econmic option. Give us a good offer!

- Air Forces are a critical issue. The Royal Saudi Air Force is the only force capable of rapidly and effectively countering threats over a large land mass. Yemen's Mig 29's pose a threat but it is Iran's growing capability that we truly have to counter.

- Air Defence, like the above. The Royal Saudi Air Defence Force is looking for a replacement of I-HAWK that can be easily integrated into the Peninsular Shield Network... The most advanced radar system outside of NATO. Must be mobile. 25% of the World's known oil lies within 30 minutes flight time from Iran. Crotale and I-Hawk won't defend it forever...

- The Royal Saudi Land Force (RSLF) Brigades are 'armour heavy'. The Saudi National Guard on the other hand depend on wheeled armour. We would explore possible conversion (RSLF) Brigades to more mobile formations.

- The Royal Saudi Navy. We have little counter to Iran's Kilo's. Looking at ASW surface vessels and maybe our own subs. Littoral combat is an issue as well as patrol capability in both the Gulf and Red Sea. Saudi is very interested in AEGIS and BMD - at a reasonable price!

- Internal security. Saudi has a significant Shia population, who just so happen to live right on top of the World's biggest oil field. Foreign-influenced unrest is always an issue. The Ministry of Interior's forces must be prepared.

- Most significant of all. Our CSS-2 IRBM needs updating to counter regional threats and as our last means of detterant. However, we are committed to NPT treaty obligations.


** Granted, they can't all be developed at once on this budget. Select whatyou think is relevant and see if you can make a better job than the Saudi Ministry of Defence!**

Any further info required/numbers/TO&E/Orbats, please ask. In the meantime, all offers considered! Will try and make a qualified final decision.

Enjoy.

 

[nz enthusiast]

For the Air Force, I would look to acquire the Eurofighter Typhoon and would start discussions about purchasing the F-35, retire the old F-5s (they still have them right?)

Look to acquire patriot or S-300/400 systems to replace the I-Hawk, perhaps even look to Type-45s to help with this and give the navy some punch.

See with we can't convince the US to sell the littoral class combat ship to us, if we can't get them immediately get some old Oliver Hazard Perry's from the US navy as they are retired from their service.

If anything I would start retiring the old Patton tanks Saudi Arabia still has and get some Challenger 2's or similar.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

AEW&C, AEW&C, AEW&C!!!!!!!!!!! Wedgetail, E3 even A50E, doesent matter, just capable AEW&C. Heavy investment in ISR is were i'd be. UAV capability like global hawk and some serious networking. A whole networked system with capable ISR will be a huge force multiplier for whatever platform you do get or use.

 

[swerve]

AEW&C, AEW&C, AEW&C!!!!!!!!!!! Wedgetail, E3 even A50E, doesent matter, just capable AEW&C. Heavy investment in ISR is were i'd be. UAV capability like global hawk and some serious networking. A whole networked system with capable ISR will be a huge force multiplier for whatever platform you do get or use.

They have several E-3s (which AFAIK have been kept up to date), & a networked system which I think is also not bad - the excellent Peninsular Shield Izzy mentions. Wouldn't take 10 bn USD to add some UAVs & necessary infrastructure. How would you spend the other $9-9.5 billion?

 

[swerve]

For the Air Force, I would look to acquire the Eurofighter Typhoon and would start discussions about purchasing the F-35, retire the old F-5s (they still have them right?) ...

If anything I would start retiring the old Patton tanks Saudi Arabia still has and get some Challenger 2's or similar.

Already negotiating for Typhoon, & F-35 is a bit far down the road for the next 5 years spending. I think the F-5E are in storage now, except for the trainers. They're looking to sell them for spares, & to existing users who are extending the life of their fleets.

Already operate M1A2, so it would probably make sense to stick with them if they want more heavy tanks. But since they keep some tanks in store, more might be a waste of resources.

 

[Aussie Digger]

AEW&C, AEW&C, AEW&C!!!!!!!!!!! Wedgetail, E3 even A50E, doesent matter, just capable AEW&C. Heavy investment in ISR is were i'd be. UAV capability like global hawk and some serious networking. A whole networked system with capable ISR will be a huge force multiplier for whatever platform you do get or use.

To that I'd add: AAR.

Persistence is becoming key. It not only increases range, loiter time, warload etc, but the ATA combat capability of fighters you DO already have.

If your fighters don't need to carry large, draggy, fuel tanks, they are OBVIOUSLY going to be better able to conduct A2A combat missions...

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

They have several E-3s (which AFAIK have been kept up to date), & a networked system which I think is also not bad - the excellent Peninsular Shield Izzy mentions. Wouldn't take 10 bn USD to add some UAVs & necessary infrastructure. How would you spend the other $9-9.5 billion?

I was planning on $3Bn for the AEW&C and networking infestructure. ISR and networking could allways use an overhaul, perhaps a geo-stat satelite with dedicated bandwith over the reigon. So apart from this the Saudi's are in pretty good shape, but what are the problems that need big bucks spending? Two problems Iran and Al queda. Al quaeda isnt really a high tech big bucks problem. So put $300m into education and economic growth for al queda hot
spots. As for Iran. New fighter force. If Typhoon is allready being negotiated for and doesent need to come out of our llittle spending spree then thats great, bonus. So 3 squadrons of Typhoons to replace the eagles and 4 squadrons of F35's to replace the Tornadoes, backed up by 1 more additional E3 to give them 6 and you've got a pretty potent airforce. However we could blow all of our little budget buying the typhoons and arms to equip them alone, so we'll say thats being done anyway.

Balistic missile defence is what they need to counter the Iranian threat and not just the US's ABM shield. Either PAC 3, THAAD or both need to be aquired and a networked infestructure to support it needs to be installed. Basically an intergrated local anti BM system. I dont have a clue how much this would cost.

Invest in their inteligence agencies. New people, new toys, new training. Both internal and external.

Apart from that I dont see what they really need apart from building on what they've allready got. Make shure their heavy brigades are complete combined arms formations with self propelled arty and MLRS, give their special forces an overhaul. That should just about do it. They would allready have to be the most capable military in the region bar the isreali's, so just keep up the good work.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

To that I'd add: AAR.

Persistence is becoming key. It not only increases range, loiter time, warload etc, but the ATA combat capability of fighters you DO already have.

If your fighters don't need to carry large, draggy, fuel tanks, they are OBVIOUSLY going to be better able to conduct A2A combat missions...

Ditto. Force multipliers is were i'd be spending those bucks, not just new platforms and AAR is a big one. They have 8 decent ones but thats not alot considering they've got a force structure of over 200 frontline aircraft.

 

[swerve]

To that I'd add: AAR.
...

They have AAR (KC-135, IIRC), & are reported to be negotiating for some nice new A330MRTT tankers to replace older ones. BTW, UAE is buying a few A330MRTT.

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

They have AAR (KC-135, IIRC), & are reported to be negotiating for some nice new A330MRTT tankers to replace older ones. BTW, UAE is buying a few A330MRTT.

8 AAR platforms servicing some 200 frontline fighters is a bit of a problem. i though 5 wasn't enough for the RAAF with just under 100. They could definatly use some more systems, not to mention improved systems.

 

[radiosilence]

I would concentrate on getting EF , Type 45 destroyers, and new SSks to counter the Iranian Kilos. i would also spend some money on a recruiting campaign to get some of the better educated human resource available in the kingdom to man these platforms. I suggested mostly Europeans hardware because it would be very hard to get congress to approve top of the line US equiptment to Saudi Arabia right now.

 

[swerve]

8 AAR platforms servicing some 200 frontline fighters is a bit of a problem. i though 5 wasn't enough for the RAAF with just under 100. They could definatly use some more systems, not to mention improved systems.

Military Balance makes it 8 KC-130 & 7 KE-3A (presumably selected over KC-135 for greater commonality with the AWACS), which is a ratio the RAF would be happy with (though the Hercs aren't exactly ideal for refuelling fighters - so yes, improved is good), but more is always better.

 

[AegisFC]

See with we can't convince the US to sell the littoral class combat ship to us, if we can't get them immediately get some old Oliver Hazard Perry's from the US navy as they are retired from their service.

I've read that the Saudi's are looking at a non-modular LCS that is set up more like a traditional Frigate.
I wouldn't go for Perry's, they still use SM-1 and to upgrade them to SM-2 wouldn't be worth the effort.

 

[Aussie Digger]

8 AAR platforms servicing some 200 frontline fighters is a bit of a problem. i though 5 wasn't enough for the RAAF with just under 100. They could definatly use some more systems, not to mention improved systems.

Saudi Airforce doesn't have the RANGE of territory to cover that RAAF does either. 8x AAR's actually seem like a massively potent force for such a (relatively) small area.

Given the relatively long ranged fighters they possess (F-15's and Tornado's) 8x AAR would seem to be very useful.

Unless you subscribe to the theory that it is absolutely ESSENTIAL to have 1x AAR for every 5x fighters, just because USAF is currently lucky enough to be able to do so...

 

[Ozzy Blizzard]

Unless you subscribe to the theory that it is absolutely ESSENTIAL to have 1x AAR for every 5x fighters, just because USAF is currently lucky enough to be able to do so...

I never siad essential just usefull. If i had the bucks to spend that would be a place i would spend it, as you said the more AAR platforms the better persistance your force structure has.

 

[Ryttare]

Training

It seems to me that Saudi Arabia has quite a lot of hardware already. I would start with the training of the troops and to recruite motivated people to use that equipment properly.

 

[darkknight87]

The Eurofighter Typhoon seems like a good choice for a fighter Jet and they should consider purchasing J-10s. We are no longer living in the Cold War Era so Saudi Arabia should not just depend on USA or Russia for Arms Supply. There is a greater competition in the Arms Market. To arm from the Europeans and from the Chinese would the best choice. In Tanks I believe that Saudi Arabia should buy the new Al-Khalid Tank that is being build by Pakistan. Not only will it help the Economies of both nations but also it will reduce the need to purchase Arms from the west and will pave a new way for the Muslim World to create their own Arms. This is exactly what the Iranians are doing and this is exactly what we should be doing as well. Create our own weapons, no dependency on the west on Arms ( Therefore as many Arms as needed can be build without embargo problems), increases our military power and will help us achieve a counter balance to the Iranian Threat.

 

[eaf-f16]

The Eurofighter Typhoon seems like a good choice for a fighter Jet and they should consider purchasing J-10s. We are no longer living in the Cold War Era so Saudi Arabia should not just depend on USA or Russia for Arms Supply. There is a greater competition in the Arms Market. To arm from the Europeans and from the Chinese would the best choice. In Tanks I believe that Saudi Arabia should buy the new Al-Khalid Tank that is being build by Pakistan. Not only will it help the Economies of both nations but also it will reduce the need to purchase Arms from the west and will pave a new way for the Muslim World to create their own Arms. This is exactly what the Iranians are doing and this is exactly what we should be doing as well. Create our own weapons, no dependency on the west on Arms ( Therefore as many Arms as needed can be build without embargo problems), increases our military power and will help us achieve a counter balance to the Iranian Threat.

Please don't live in fantasies.

The T-95 prototype tank is in Saudi for testing because they thought the Leclerc 2 was too un-advanced for them, they're not going to go Pakistani any time soon.

And why would they buy the J-10 when they are buying planes like Eurofighters and wanted the F-16 Block 60/62 so bad?

And believe me the only thing the Saudis are worried about is Iran which it is superior to militarily (but doesn't have the amount of troops that the Iranians have) so the Americans won't be putting up arms embargoes on Saudi and may i mention an arms embargo from the US will be swiftly met with an oil embargo from Saudi (once they did it just cuz Egypt was fighting Israel).

The Saudis never fought the Israelis ,even when they passed over their with 14 planes territory for 5 hours to and from Iraq. The Saudis would never go to war with Israel unless it attacks first and the same goes for Egypt.

 

[SaudiArabian]

The Saudis never fought the Israelis

that is false , we fought them in 1948 and in 1967

the RSAF also blocked the Saudi north western airspace for 3 days using F-15C's and AWACS's in 1988 to prevent an israeli air strike against Al Sulayyil IRBM base.

even when they passed over their with 14 planes territory for 5 hours to and from Iraq. The Saudis would never go to war with Israel unless it attacks first and the same goes for Egypt.

are you sure about the "5 hours" ?

 

[cheetah]

=

SaudiArabian;105022]that is false , we fought them in 1948 and in 1967

could you please put up a link backing your claim.i am pretty sure Saudis never even shot a bullet in Israels direction.

the RSAF also blocked the Saudi north western airspace for 3 days using F-15C's and AWACS's in 1988 to prevent an israeli air strike against Al Sulayyil IRBM base.

dont remmeber reading about it any where would love a link for a read.

are you sure about the "5 hours

LAst i checked it was.

but i have a question Iran have never ever threatened to attack house of Saud.Israel have never ever given up on the chance to humiliate:nutkick Arabs.yet the Iranians are enemies.
could u please answer this one.