yes but as i stated before the Iraqi's were using out dated SAM's (highly susceptible to the EA-6B Prowlers and various Tornados equipped with ECM pods that were used so extensivly) lacked long range and mobile SAM's. And a good and modern ADS that is operated properly can do a good amount of damage to even the most advanced air forces before going out with the biggest example being the Yom Kippur war.
Saddams' SAM sites
- Thread starter eaf-f16
- Start date
Grand Danois
Entertainer
It's all about initiative. In the Gulf War(s) the initiative lay with the allied/coalition air forces and the advantage was theirs. The situation will be similar with a strike on Iran.
In the Yom Kippur War, the IDF/AF was forced to commit on the enemys terms, as he had the initiative.
In Bekaa Valley (1982) the IDF/AF had the initiative and killed off the SAMs.
Circumstances and context are different.
Btw, anyone have a good link on air losses on the allied side in 1991?
Edit: Found one myself.
http://www.ausairpower.net/Analysis-ODS-EW.html
Last edited:
http://www.rjlee.org/aaloss.html
quite reliable link i think, quite a few losses. I heard an F-15C was roumured to be downed by an Iraqi MiG-25 which would make it the only F-15 air to air loss if true
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Wasn't it a Hornet that a MiG-25 is rumoured to have taken down?
Interesting to compare the two links... APA have 5 losses, whereas www.rjlee.org/aaloss.html has 6 for the 17/1-91.
no, that loss is confirmed but the Iraqis claimed that they downed and F-15 with a MiG-25.
Grand Danois
Entertainer
Never heard of that before, though.
SpelingMistakes
New Member
Quite interesting discussion with little jumping on side about nuclear bomb, but I will like that we stay on course of topic – an that is - Saddams' SAM sites in Military Strategy and Tactics
Ok
I am from Serbia, and I surely think I can say much more about actions of a NATO against my country – I think that much of those will “blear” your ideas about action against Iran.
Like someone say I will be “lawyer” of a “bad” side – I like those roles – really.
Lest see next – on forum which I administrate I have lots of topics connected to air defence and improvements in those waters. Personally I study Iran for a period of about few years and I think I have enough information’s to play with you people, who always say – we are better and they are not good as we. I must admit - because much of you are on USA side and you all talks about what you will do to Iran military, I will try to see other side of medal – if I can say like that.
We will start by some facts
Iran has thousands of rocket which can reach lots of nearby targets like for instances:
1. Whole Israel
2. All US military bases which very surely will be used against Iran
3. All big targets like oil platforms, pipes routs, harbours, tankers etc…
I will not mention all other stuff because there is a lot of those “stuff” targets which Iran has in reach of only its rockets.
By my sources Iran has at least 10 (some western sources say numbers are 15) Air defence Systems S 200. Its radar has been heavily modified by chine’s intellect which now show that those 15 rocket systems with range up to 500 km are quite good and quite dangerous weapons.
Idea of integration of all those system has been target of activities last few years – where Iran has been making a network which interconnects its Early Warning radars with all other weapons systems they have – They have surely much more than 200 of usable rocket systems which they can use against aggression from air.
Much of those by your words are obsolete, but surely you didn’t know that almost all of those has been heavily modified by Chinese technical people and its knowledge. Much of those systems China has in its own military arsenal, and that weapons are constantly improved by their best scientists. Much of those weapons in China has been heavily modified several times – like 3 or even four. – Yes- I mean of those from 60-s which Iran has in its arsenal to. Some of those systems are now in use for antiballistic systems across all chine – which obsolete system from 60’- surely cant do. Think by yourself what they done to these systems when they can use it for those purpose.
I must mention something about its EW capability - Brand new China made 3D radars with ranges approximately 400 km for EW work fine in this case. You must agree with me about that.
Improved AA rockets with lots of improvements and especially in case of jamming and similar stuff.
Some of those has been produced in Iran also – domestic rocket which means that they don’t depend on anybody – but that is not case for all equipment – only for few system, but good enough for respect.
This is for beginning, but I also have idea that I include in my post my view what Iran will do in case of Attack.
If Iran get signals that he will be attacked without warning and legal war declarations, I will prepare all my rocket power and attack my enemy preventively or pre-emptively – whatever – I will do something like that.
Parts of IRG and Hezbollah will play its role in case of Israel, which obviously show that with some success Israel has lots of problems fighting that last “intervention or war” against “terrorism” in is yard. Rockets which there is in enough quantity will fly in Israel land and I know there will be lots of problems and huge damage on Israel land
I must mention
I am not against Israel not even America – This is purely futuristic because somebody must look from other angle – that is my opinion.
I know that Iran has not less than 300 big rockets of different categories in its west part prepared to shot at Israel – Lots of those are on mobile platforms – Those systems are proud of Iran rocket science and its military. They are controlled by secure radio comunications and they are on constant move – Its pattern of “behaviour” is not so predictable, which will make to USA and Israelis to down them all at same time. Those are very precise weapons and for its preparation several minutes and enough. I saw some military exercises where Iran has show not only those systems but some of its tactics also – I have been impressed.
End of part 1
SpelingMistakey
ArmyInfoForum
Ok
I am from Serbia, and I surely think I can say much more about actions of a NATO against my country – I think that much of those will “blear” your ideas about action against Iran.
Like someone say I will be “lawyer” of a “bad” side
– I like those roles – really.Lest see next – on forum which I administrate I have lots of topics connected to air defence and improvements in those waters. Personally I study Iran for a period of about few years and I think I have enough information’s to play with you people, who always say – we are better and they are not good as we. I must admit - because much of you are on USA side and you all talks about what you will do to Iran military, I will try to see other side of medal – if I can say like that.
We will start by some facts
Iran has thousands of rocket which can reach lots of nearby targets like for instances:
1. Whole Israel
2. All US military bases which very surely will be used against Iran
3. All big targets like oil platforms, pipes routs, harbours, tankers etc…
I will not mention all other stuff because there is a lot of those “stuff” targets which Iran has in reach of only its rockets.
By my sources Iran has at least 10 (some western sources say numbers are 15) Air defence Systems S 200. Its radar has been heavily modified by chine’s intellect which now show that those 15 rocket systems with range up to 500 km are quite good and quite dangerous weapons.
Idea of integration of all those system has been target of activities last few years – where Iran has been making a network which interconnects its Early Warning radars with all other weapons systems they have – They have surely much more than 200 of usable rocket systems which they can use against aggression from air.
Much of those by your words are obsolete, but surely you didn’t know that almost all of those has been heavily modified by Chinese technical people and its knowledge. Much of those systems China has in its own military arsenal, and that weapons are constantly improved by their best scientists. Much of those weapons in China has been heavily modified several times – like 3 or even four. – Yes- I mean of those from 60-s which Iran has in its arsenal to. Some of those systems are now in use for antiballistic systems across all chine – which obsolete system from 60’- surely cant do. Think by yourself what they done to these systems when they can use it for those purpose.
I must mention something about its EW capability - Brand new China made 3D radars with ranges approximately 400 km for EW work fine in this case. You must agree with me about that.
Improved AA rockets with lots of improvements and especially in case of jamming and similar stuff.
Some of those has been produced in Iran also – domestic rocket which means that they don’t depend on anybody – but that is not case for all equipment – only for few system, but good enough for respect.
This is for beginning, but I also have idea that I include in my post my view what Iran will do in case of Attack.
If Iran get signals that he will be attacked without warning and legal war declarations, I will prepare all my rocket power and attack my enemy preventively or pre-emptively – whatever – I will do something like that.
Parts of IRG and Hezbollah will play its role in case of Israel, which obviously show that with some success Israel has lots of problems fighting that last “intervention or war” against “terrorism” in is yard. Rockets which there is in enough quantity will fly in Israel land and I know there will be lots of problems and huge damage on Israel land
I must mention
I am not against Israel not even America – This is purely futuristic because somebody must look from other angle – that is my opinion.
I know that Iran has not less than 300 big rockets of different categories in its west part prepared to shot at Israel – Lots of those are on mobile platforms – Those systems are proud of Iran rocket science and its military. They are controlled by secure radio comunications and they are on constant move – Its pattern of “behaviour” is not so predictable, which will make to USA and Israelis to down them all at same time. Those are very precise weapons and for its preparation several minutes and enough. I saw some military exercises where Iran has show not only those systems but some of its tactics also – I have been impressed.
End of part 1
SpelingMistakey
ArmyInfoForum
While S -200 is still very very capable system, unfortunately it is not mobile. Given alsmost endless supply of cruise missiles on USA side, no time constraints, good USA reconing capabilites and weak Iran point-defence SAM's - i cant see how S-200 will help much against USA attack. At most they will delay it for several days. USA may lose few jets similar to fist Gulf war - but nothing major. The technological difference is simply too great, and Airforce/SAM's are all about technology.
It is like sending F-4 against SU-30MKI. While former is still very capable aircraft - it will not have many chances.
It is like sending F-4 against SU-30MKI. While former is still very capable aircraft - it will not have many chances.
Last edited:
SpelingMistakes
New Member
Last several months Iran acquired at least 2 S 300, some Buk and Tunguska systems also. Before several days they make arrangement with Syria to buy from them at least 10 Pantzir systems - If they succeed to upgrade its 40 Mig 29 that will be good. Buying some new jets or making its own in great numbers and upgrading them which can be don also under sanction for proliferation and transfer of military technology will be tough move from Iran side.
One fact all forget to remember
Almost all rich countries in gulf region rise its military budgets to very high level - That mean business- much of those go to Americans - (Patriot, AEGIS, planes etc) and Britain - which means - If westerners soon remove that "threat" that will mean stopping money - isn’t! If treat is eliminated why than all those countries will spent their money!
All those countries are far away of protecting its business in case of oil platforms and oil pipes from Iranians missiles and that mean war is not to close - Fact is also that America has lots of problems in Afghanistan and Iraq, and it is to stretched across those problem, Iran will be quite above its possibilities for the moment.
One fact all forget to remember
Almost all rich countries in gulf region rise its military budgets to very high level - That mean business- much of those go to Americans - (Patriot, AEGIS, planes etc) and Britain - which means - If westerners soon remove that "threat" that will mean stopping money - isn’t! If treat is eliminated why than all those countries will spent their money!
All those countries are far away of protecting its business in case of oil platforms and oil pipes from Iranians missiles and that mean war is not to close - Fact is also that America has lots of problems in Afghanistan and Iraq, and it is to stretched across those problem, Iran will be quite above its possibilities for the moment.