Saddams' SAM sites

[Chrom]

For anyone thinking what UAV, JDAMS, Thermals, etc. are holy grail and nothing can hide from it - remember Iraq 2003. In empty waster Coalition forces couldnt find old bulky SCUDS which btw. needed like hours preparation time to fire. Remember also recent Israel-Lebanon war where Israel failed the same task... And these countries didnt even used modern camo devices. In fact, i doubt the used any at all.

In short, camoflage FTW.

 

[Waylander]

I have to agree with Chrom.

Iran is HUGE. They have massive mountain formations. They have indeed some forests. And they have enough cities to hide the whole red army in them.
I just don't see the US forces being able to hit an army which doesn't need to move or mass its forces.
As said before it is not needed for an operation with the goal to cripple the Iranian nuclear programm.
But the overhelming US forces will not be forever directly in the region...

 

[Aussie Digger]

JSOW needs the said massed formations to be really effective with its submunition and a JDAM is not better in hunting down enemy forces than a LGB or a Maverick.
There are for sure better radar and IR targeting assets but are they that better?

As to countryside. There are enough mountainious areas in Iran. And there are the cities. Unless you go in with ground forces or mass bombard cities in a Dresden style (With the same amount of civilian deaths) one could hide whole armies in big cities.
There are defenitely enough big cities and mountains in Iran.

And you have to compare the sheer size of Iran (1.636.000 m², 11% forests) with the cramped area of the Kosovo (11.877 m²).
A huge area to search...

But with the F-22 you are defenitely right! :nutkick

Unitary JSOW's are deployed now by the US. The submunition warhead is only one variety of 3 which JSOW can deploy...

JDAM certainly IS better than LGB or Maverick which is why it is rapidly becoming the weapon of choice and those older weapon systems AREN'T being developed any further... Laser or dual - mode JDAM has ALL the precision and moving target capability of either LGB or Maverick without total reliance on clear weather conditions...

I don't doubt the variety of Countryside within Iran, but I DO doubt that it is as tough for air power as that of Bosnia.

Adding up the more suitable environment, the massive advances in targetting capabilities since the late 90's and the arguably less capable IADS system maintained by the Iranians and it equals: trouble...

 

[knightz33]

For the U.S., SAMs won't stop the mail from getting through. They will only delay the process some.

Well, i wont totally agree with you, but it makes sense. Well, you see, that depends how and where you place the SAMs. It also depends how advance the SAM is....If you have almost 5 thousands advance SAM sites in your country, i think the Americans will have to think twice before doing anything. Even considering whatever invasion they have in mind

 

[Waylander]

@AD
And you want to use JSOW C versions against single targets? Not very economic.

As to the environment of Iran. For sure the Kosovo had one of the toughest environments for tracking hidden ground forces.
But the Iran is so huge compared to the Kosovo and they have some extreme areas by themselfes.

And why is the IADS systems of the Iran less capable than that of Serbia?

 

[Chrom]

Well, i wont totally agree with you, but it makes sense. Well, you see, that depends how and where you place the SAMs. It also depends how advance the SAM is....If you have almost 5 thousands advance SAM sites in your country, i think the Americans will have to think twice before doing anything. Even considering whatever invasion they have in mind

IF you have 5000 advanced SAM's in your counry.. WTF your country is still not called "United States of Eurasia"?

 

[Aussie Digger]

@AD
And you want to use JSOW C versions against single targets? Not very economic.

Depends on the target. A command centre buried underground could be considered a single target.

For high value targets, such as air defence radar systems, communications facilities etc, the accuracy and terminal homing capability of the C variant may prove very useful indeed. War is often not very economical...

As to the environment of Iran. For sure the Kosovo had one of the toughest environments for tracking hidden ground forces.
But the Iran is so huge compared to the Kosovo and they have some extreme areas by themselfes.

And why is the IADS systems of the Iran less capable than that of Serbia?

From what I've read the capabilities of the ground based air defences and the air force capabilities of Iran don't seem to be as great "overall" as that of Yugoslavia pre-1998...

Certainly TOR-M1 and similar systems are probably more effective than similar systems which were employed in Bosnia at the time, but is Iran's air defence network as tightly integrated and is it's air force as capable?

I'd argue: no.

 

[Waylander]

They did not that bad against the Iraqis during the Iran Iraq war.

That a JSOW is nice against such interesting targets like you mentioned is right. But I talked about targets like lonely APCs, IFVs, tanks, trucks, etc. hidden in the landscape.

As to how good the air defense of Iran is integrated. I know a sh*** about it. Because of this I asked and I hoped some of the aviation pros here could enlighten me.

 

[Manfred]

I was hoping for the same thing...

 

[bobac2855]

the Bomb

They have it , If they did not have it U.S. would be on them like fly on shoot.
It is not Iraq, Once you're Iranian you are always Persian.
Do not sit here and try b/s rest of the world army/af/navy is superior
they have not fought against formidable force yet.

 

[bobac2855]

Here we go again

Ronald Reagan Used to say,
We are comparing apples to oranges, I tell you One shot fired into Iran
All hell is going to brake loose, No Golf for me That's for sure all my
yahudi friends are not going to show up they know the sheikh is going to send them to hell.
Let's stop and see the senario.
C-802 , speed boats, mines, Irg, navy,qouds,af,navy.......
All the fires would be on poor American boys and rag tops in middle east
You know UAE ,Oman,Ghattar,SAudi....... They will be only names from the past.
Remember ,when Russia broke up , Do you know how many tones of
green stuff arrived to Iran ,Do you remember suitcases missing....nfloorl:
Europe will be dying for drop of oil, Radio active oil is not usable.
Just do not kid yourselves Gate of hell is going to open and swallow everyone
there in it. I know itnfloorl:

 

[Falstaff]

Ronald Reagan Used to say,
We are comparing apples to oranges, I tell you One shot fired into Iran
All hell is going to brake loose, No Golf for me That's for sure all my
yahudi friends are not going to show up they know the sheikh is going to send them to hell.
Let's stop and see the senario.
C-802 , speed boats, mines, Irg, navy,qouds,af,navy.......
All the fires would be on poor American boys and rag tops in middle east
You know UAE ,Oman,Ghattar,SAudi....... They will be only names from the past.
Remember ,when Russia broke up , Do you know how many tones of
green stuff arrived to Iran ,Do you remember suitcases missing....nfloorl:
Europe will be dying for drop of oil, Radio active oil is not usable.
Just do not kid yourselves Gate of hell is going to open and swallow everyone
there in it. I know itnfloorl:

Been watching too many of that awkward wonder weapon videos the rest of the world is laughing about, eh?

I just don't understand what the f*** somebody like you is doing in the USA. Why not stay in your home country and wait until you can be of value for your country's mighty military and sacrifice yourself?

 

[bobac2855]

wiseman

I am the Persian wiseman who came when Jesus was born.
For you Dumb Sh...
I pay more on Rej fee on my cars and boat Than you make a year
I was Iranian Pilot Who was trained Here , I know what I am talking About I know my People.

 

[Falstaff]

Well, you're post certainly underlines your military expertise and that you're a gift to your people.

 

[bobac2855]

gift

I am a gift from my People to this country, This is My home .
I have done it All , Now we can't let our machines decide for our future
No one in the world spends more on arms than this country, no one.
We can not compare Apples to oranges .We know it No one can stand
military wise against us, We are going to get sucker punched soon
Not from Iran (chi...,Pak...) wise men stays quiet & united.

 

[Rich]

I am a gift from my People to this country, This is My home .
I have done it All , Now we can't let our machines decide for our future
No one in the world spends more on arms than this country, no one.
We can not compare Apples to oranges .We know it No one can stand
military wise against us, We are going to get sucker punched soon
Not from Iran (chi...,Pak...) wise men stays quiet & united.

Wow! Thats real heavy dude. Welcome to the forum. I just hope we have more elevated thoughts like the above one coming our way.

 

[T-95]

For the U.S., SAMs won't stop the mail from getting through. They will only delay the process some.

Really? So even if a country had complete SAM coverage over its territories with with same systems like the Tor-m1(can stop the HARM and any air-ground munition in its tracks), the 9K37 Buk and the S-400(world most advanced air defense system, can track stealth targets) your saying the US will only have minor trouble getting through even with the F-22?

 

[Grand Danois]

Really? So even if a country had complete SAM coverage over its territories with with same systems like the Tor-m1(can stop the HARM and any air-ground munition in its tracks), the 9K37 Buk and the S-400(world most advanced air defense system, can track stealth targets) your saying the US will only have minor trouble getting through even with the F-22?

Yes. GBAD only slows down the tempo with which an air campaign progresses. The GBADs real value is combined with interceptors to make shure the air component stays in the fight, i.e. does not get overrun.

 

[T-95]

Yes. GBAD only slows down the tempo with which an air campaign progresses. The GBADs real value is combined with interceptors to make shure the air component stays in the fight, i.e. does not get overrun.

Yes, but surely they will not achieve this with out heavy losses. Even Saddam's SAM's shot down a significant number of modern US warplanes with out dated Russian tech from the 60's. These are ultra modern air defense systems. I'm sure if you send in the 300 F-18's from the US carriers into a country with that kind of air defense more than 100 would be shot down before the SAM's start weakening.

 

[Grand Danois]

Yes, but surely they will not achieve this with out heavy losses. Even Saddam's SAM's shot down a significant number of modern US warplanes with out dated Russian tech from the 60's. These are ultra modern air defense systems. I'm sure if you send in the 300 F-18's from the US carriers into a country with that kind of air defense more than 100 would be shot down before the SAM's start weakening.

An attack on an IADS isn't a one dimensional undertaking like 300 F-18s vs regiments of S-300.

Anyhow, IIRC the Iraqi IADS was as dense as the WARPAC one facing NATO in Europe.