New confrontations between UNIFIL and Israeli forces

[Falstaff]

According to the newspaper "WELT" there have been several incidents again.

1. Last Wednesday several Israeli fighter jets headed towards the German frigate "Niedersachsen" cruising off the Lebanon coast.
2. On 30th April already an Israeli FAC encountered the "Niedersachsen" with appr. 30 knots without identifying itself.
3. On 29th April an Israeli UAV encountered a Swedish FAC which was also part of the UNIFIL forces

The article states that the forces command center at Potsdam confirmed these incidents and that the UN formally protested against the Israeli behaviour.

Your opinions?

 

[merocaine]

testing the reaction times of a modern opponent, plus the Israelies dont like the UN.

 

[Waylander]

Business as usual.

This mission is so full of **** as I expected it to be.
The land borders to Syria are not closed and we send ships to Libanese ports to be searched there. Yehaw, as if the Hizbollah doesn't know how to give some port workers some money...

Finally we sit right on top of a box of TNT without performing the mission we should perform.
So leave and save the money.

 

[metro]

Business as usual.

This mission is so full of **** as I expected it to be.
The land borders to Syria are not closed and we send ships to Libanese ports to be searched there. Yehaw, as if the Hizbollah doesn't know how to give some port workers some money...

Finally we sit right on top of a box of TNT without performing the mission we should perform.
So leave and save the money.

I couldn't read the German article (I don't know if you there's a translation), but I agee that Israel is most definitely not happy withthe UN or UNIFIL. They are Pissed that they after they signed another UN resoltion to stop a war with some "Garantees." Their soilders aren't released. Hizbollah was going to be kept out of S. Lebanon by the "Lebanese Army" and UNIFL. UNIFL was going to seop any weapons smuggling so Hizbollah couldn't re-arm... and so on.

Hizbollah is re-armed to the teeth. Now, with bigger and better weapns.
Weapons "Smuggling" is too strong of a word. Weapons are just brought in.
Hizbollah has been kept so far away from the boarder they have their flag planted next to the UN's, right on the boarder. UNIFIL removed it once, and Hizbollah must have mafe an impression on someone because it's back to stay and not to be touched.
Israel has to use its F15s and Drones for recon over Lebanon an UNIFIL (first french General) accuses them running attack simulations on UNIFIL.
Those F15s are flying at a high altitude, circling, and taking photos.
Israel gets pissed because the get blamed for doing UNIFIL's job... which they just have to turn around and look at look at the "truks" passing behind them.
The Port deliveries of "cargo," doesn't make them happy either.

I can understand too, because they're the people who are going to have those weapons used on them.

On the other hand, what's UNIFIL going to do? Fight Hizbollah? Not going to happen. The UN's not going to ruin it's Peace Mission.

So, I'm guessing Israel is thinking, "Any more great ideas Kofi"?
"Oh, he's gone... leaving [us], high an dry."

I don't think Israel should be messing with "friendly" ships offshore, but I think their basically saying, "You arn't helping us do the job. At this point, your doing more of watching us. So we'd actually rather have you return home and will do the job ourselves." [When I say "you," I'm using it in General for UNIFIL].

 

[Waylander]

The simulated attack runs on french ground troops or german ships were indeed not just high flying recce planes. Those were real simulated attack runs.

But I agree that the missions is seems to be really useless.
And because of this I want our troops back at home. We should do our job properly or get the hell out of there and save the money and time.
But this should work without constant bullying by the Israelis.
This is not how you treat your "friends". We pay for their subs and in return they fire cannon salvos over our ships...

 

[contedicavour]

If you want to join me in a sarcastic good laugh...

our foreign minister is pushing for EU and UN peacekeeping internvetion in Gaza to halt the civil war between Fatah and Hamas.

We're in a very dangerous position between Israelis and Hezbollahs in Lebanon and all our good minister has in mind is thinking about sending more of our soldiers in an even messier place.

My oh my...

 

[metro]

The simulated attack runs on french ground troops or german ships were indeed not just high flying recce planes. Those were real simulated attack runs.

But I agree that the missions is seems to be really useless.
And because of this I want our troops back at home. We should do our job properly or get the hell out of there and save the money and time.
But this should work without constant bullying by the Israelis.
This is not how you treat your "friends". We pay for their subs and in return they fire cannon salvos over our ships...

I don't know about simulated attack runs on the frrench ground troops. That makes no sense and is a waste of time. The French General (I'm not even going to try to spell his name) at the time was complaining about IAF F-15s and Drones entering Lebanese airspace on reccon missions. I'm not going to argue this one, I mean I've read many of the "complaints" from the French General, and IMO, it's good he went home.

The problem with UNIFIL leaving is, it's not in Hizbollah's interest. UNIFIL is a force multiplier for them. The more troops the better.

As for the German Ship(s), the IAF was acting completely stupid. There was absolutely no reason or exlanation for it (unless we don't know something... which I doubt), other than they lost their minds.

Do you know if the intel-ship was 50 miles or km offshore?
I'm just wondering because Israel definitely doesn't like anyone near its shore as they contantly move around systems along their coast... not to mention using your subs to do their own thing a little to the north.
(As I said in anoter thread) "NATO" (probably ours-US) subs are often escorted out of Israeli waters... I guess they don't like sailors checking out the women on the beach

Are you guys building Israel (2) 212 subs?

Do you think it's possible that Israel was able to convert any of their Jerricho's into SLBMs in any subs they got from you? I know the Poppye is a open secret, but I was wondering if you think it's even possible to do.

I hope all of your guys get home safely. You're right about the mission, it's nothing but a waste of time, resources, and a risk for all of those in that area.

 

[Waylander]

@metro
No, they get Dolphins from us not U212As.
And you can put nuclear tipped cruise missiles into them but no SLBMs.

The ship was 50 sea miles off the coast of Israel.

@contedicavour
Hehe, this is what I would call not from this world...

 

[metro]

If you want to join me in a sarcastic good laugh...

our foreign minister is pushing for EU and UN peacekeeping internvetion in Gaza to halt the civil war between Fatah and Hamas.

We're in a very dangerous position between Israelis and Hezbollahs in Lebanon and all our good minister has in mind is thinking about sending more of our soldiers in an even messier place.

My oh my...

Oh wow. EU/UN Troops in Gaza... $2Million per captured "peacekeeper."

Send you FM their for a week first, and then, if he returns, ask him if he's re-evaluated his position.

 

[contedicavour]

Oh wow. EU/UN Troops in Gaza... $2Million per captured "peacekeeper."

Send you FM their for a week first, and then, if he returns, ask him if he's re-evaluated his position.

Yeah good idea. Besides, if the kidnappers wanted to keep our foreign minister I wouldn't mind
Seriously I'm wondering until when Israel will remain rudderless and inactive while the Palestinians are in a civil war that might end up with Hamas on top. Peace prospects would then definitively be killed. Besides, with politicians currently discredited, the Israeli military must now be very careful not to make mistakes since its reputation is at stake. There's no more hiding behind the government's incompetence...

cheers

 

[Falstaff]

Yeah good idea. Besides, if the kidnappers wanted to keep our foreign minister I wouldn't mind

That's a cunning plan... I'd like to add some of our politicians

 

[eckherl]

testing the reaction times of a modern opponent, plus the Israelies dont like the UN.

I really cannot blame the Isrealis for not liking the UN, all they do is offer lip service with a blatent dis regard for Isreals security. UNIFILs presence is nothing more than a big joke on both sides of the dividing line, it is just too bad that the Lebaneese people are caught in the middle.

 

[radiosilence]

I really cannot blame the Isrealis for not liking the UN, all they do is offer lip service with a blatent dis regard for Isreals security. UNIFILs presence is nothing more than a big joke on both sides of the dividing line, it is just too bad that the Lebaneese people are caught in the middle.

Did you really believe that UN/UNIFILs forces were going to come in and stop Hezbollah from rearming and Israeli overflights over Lebanon? Blaming UN/UNIFILs is very popular these days when the solution rest within both parties.

 

[eckherl]

Did you really believe that UN/UNIFILs forces were going to come in and stop Hezbollah from rearming and Israeli overflights over Lebanon? Blaming UN/UNIFILs is very popular these days when the solution rest within both parties.

No - I did not believe that UNIFIL would have any influence at all between Hezbollah and Isreal, it was going to be a wasted trip from the start.

 

[contedicavour]

I agree nobody can really criticize UNIFIL since it is simply fulfilling its mandate as it has been spelled out by the UN Security Council...

What is really sad is that several European politicians' good conscience dictates them to send over several thousand soldiers and marines with a most confusing and irrelevant mandate. What matters is having done a good gesture. Whether it delivers results or not, they don't care.

The truth is that we Europeans can't do a damn thing to stop the mess in Southern Lebanon (never mind Gaza). We spent billions of euros to fund all sorts of programmes to help out local populations, but unfortunately this hasn't stopped extremism (which is also fuelled by the way by Israel's policies that stop Palestinians from working in Israel).

Anyway, back to topic. Given the mess in the Olmert government I don't think Israel is doing it on purpose to provoke UNIFIL. It may be up to the initiative of local commanders who are fed up with today's status quo.
In the meanwhile the only useful thing the Franco-Italian UNIFIL troops could do is to intensify patrols along the border with Syria to limit the arrival of weapons from Iran and Syria. But that's it. It is up to Israel and Syria to find peace terms etc etc

cheers