RMAF Future; need opinions

[qwerty223]

They didn't even get R-77 with the MKM? What a waste of money. You spend 50 million per MKM + extra maintenance cost and avionic upgrade cost, but can't spend some extra for R-77 (absolutely baffeling).

Ok. A little add-on for weasel1962's info.

The origin sentence in the article goes like this:
", the MKM can carry laser designator and anti-radiation missile guidance system mission pods, air to air missiles (AAM) like the R-27RE, R-27TE and Vympel RVV-AE, ..."

What surprise me was the article state that MKM have 2 vector engines, the AL-37FP. Info earlier was always emphasize "no vector engine" as the biggest difference from MKI...

 

[Tebuan]

Rmaf F-5 E/f

It looks nice. There was some transfer of technology with regards to aircraft refurbishment I think. And it also allows our pilots to build up their flight hours. But I agree with weasel, that thing is cannon fodder.

One option would be to refurbish and upgrade these F-5s with low air-frame hours as LIFT with cockpits/instrumentation layout similar to SU-30s or F-18s. Some countries have chosed this option with their F-5s eg Turkey/Spain if I am not mistaken. This could be a cost effective solution given the reports that we also have issues with training enough pilots...

 

[TanaTana]

They didn't even get R-77 with the MKM? What a waste of money. You spend 50 million per MKM + extra maintenance cost and avionic upgrade cost, but can't spend some extra for R-77 (absolutely baffeling).

According to TEMPUR magazine March issue: The Su-30 MKM's weapons package will include R-73E, R-77, R-27R1, R-27ER1, and R-27-ET1 air combat missiles, a built-in single barrel 30mm GSh-301 internal gun ( with 150 rounds ), and Kh-31P supersonic anti-radiation missiles, Kh-31A supersonic anti-ship missiles, Kh-29TE TV-guided air to surface missiles, Kh-59ME TV-guided anti ship missiles, S-8KOM unguided air to surface rockets, KAB-500Kr and KAB-1500Kr laser guided bombs andOFAB-100-120 gravity bombs. The ZSh-7APN Sura-K helmet mounted display and sight (HMD) system supplied by the Arsenal Company of Ukraine will allow the pilot to turn his head in a 90 degrees FOV, lock on to a target and launch the Vympel R-73Es.

 

[renjer]

One option would be to refurbish and upgrade these F-5s with low air-frame hours as LIFT with cockpits/instrumentation layout similar to SU-30s or F-18s. Some countries have chosed this option with their F-5s eg Turkey/Spain if I am not mistaken. This could be a cost effective solution given the reports that we also have issues with training enough pilots...

Yes, I think that is exactly what the air force is trying to do. At this stage in its service life it is definitely better suited as a trainer rather than as a fighter.

 

[renjer]

According to TEMPUR magazine March issue: The Su-30 MKM's weapons package will include R-73E, R-77, R-27R1, R-27ER1, and R-27-ET1 air combat missiles, a built-in single barrel 30mm GSh-301 internal gun ( with 150 rounds ), and Kh-31P supersonic anti-radiation missiles, Kh-31A supersonic anti-ship missiles, Kh-29TE TV-guided air to surface missiles, Kh-59ME TV-guided anti ship missiles, S-8KOM unguided air to surface rockets, KAB-500Kr and KAB-1500Kr laser guided bombs andOFAB-100-120 gravity bombs. The ZSh-7APN Sura-K helmet mounted display and sight (HMD) system supplied by the Arsenal Company of Ukraine will allow the pilot to turn his head in a 90 degrees FOV, lock on to a target and launch the Vympel R-73Es.

What? No, air-launched KLUB? What are those air force planners thinking?

 

[qwerty223]

RMAF jet crashes in Kuantan

Saturday May 5, 2007

PETALING JAYA: A Royal Malaysian Air Force (RMAF) Hawk 208 jet crashed after take-off at the Kuantan airbase yesterday.

The pilot managed to eject to safety in the 10.32am incident.

RMAF public relations officer Mej Zulkiflee Abdul Latiff said in a statement that the pilot, Kapt Yusni Sari, 36, was not seriously injured and was taken to the Tengku Ampuan Afzan Hospital in Kuantan.

A board of inquiry would be set up to investigate the incident, he said.

Mej Zulkiflee said the aircraft, which was on routine flight training, crashed within the airbase soon after take-off.

The pilot was said to be in high spirits and good condition at the hospital.

Hospital director Dr Ardi Awang said the pilot sustained only minor cuts on his right hand.

another hawk crashed...
since pilot ejected, probably we means we gona less 1 hawk...
but glad the pilot is ok

 

[Todjaeger]

another hawk crashed...
since pilot ejected, probably we means we gona less 1 hawk...

How many Hawk 208s does that leave in inventory? And can anyone say how many were ordered in total?

Good to hear the pilot's okay though.

-Cheers

 

[qwerty223]

How many Hawk 208s does that leave in inventory? And can anyone say how many were ordered in total?

Good to hear the pilot's okay though.

-Cheers

Well, I can give a rough one.

We ordered 18 208s and 10 108s in 1990 and received them in 1994.
Several crashes, each of them 5 times.

According to wiki, based on Aerospace Source Book 2007, Aviation Week & Space Technology, there left 14 and 6 respectively.

 

[johngage]

They didn't even get R-77 with the MKM? What a waste of money. You spend 50 million per MKM + extra maintenance cost and avionic upgrade cost, but can't spend some extra for R-77 (absolutely baffeling).

I heard a rumour that the R-77 is a very problematic missile. But its just a rumour...

 

[ELP]

Go with the big SU-3x. The growth room for the next several years for airframe, engines, weapons, avionics is excellent. Excellent range and performance.

Legacy Hornet. Stay with it as long as there is value then retire it. There won't be any U.S. boneyard C/D items for it as the U.S. Navy is using up the airframe life on their legacy Hornets at an alarming rate due to U.S. ops tempo. Also getting out of a U.S. supply chain management thing over the long haul is a good idea. The all knowing U.S. policy interference isn't good for sovereignty issues.

Same answer with Super Hornet for sovereignty issues. Super Hornet is also non-competitive in the region for the next 20 years. No value in that unless you have lots of cash to stand up a weapon system that is a good strike aircraft but at risk to any big SU including the big SU growth path mentioned.

MiG-29- Maintenance on this aircraft has always been dodgy. It hasn't proven itself in this area up to any reasonable standard in any air force. Investing in this aircraft is a dead end for the future.

For the long haul big SU all the way.

What is the situation with the number and quality of modern training simulators on hand for pilot undergraduate, advanced and recurrent training?.

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[weasel1962]

Deleted

 

[tphuang]

I heard a rumour that the R-77 is a very problematic missile. But its just a rumour...

not saying that it's a great missile, but it's still much better than R-27 variants. Things look pretty bleak to operate a modern fighter without a fire and forget missile

 

[weasel1962]

Re:

Deleted

 

[johngage]

not saying that it's a great missile, but it's still much better than R-27 variants. Things look pretty bleak to operate a modern fighter without a fire and forget missile

The avionics on the SU-30MKM allow for the integration of other missiles. If I am not mistaken, the French offered to integrate the MBDA MICA for the RMAF but this was turned down on the basis of cost. Presumably, this could be done at a later date, and from a technical point of view it is not unfeasible as the avionics on the SU-30MKM are largely French (Thales). It is also technically possible to integrate other missiles such as the S. African R-Darter but again I wouldn't know what the cost would be.

 

[swerve]

Go with the big SU-3x. The growth room for the next several years for airframe, engines, weapons, avionics is excellent. Excellent range and performance.

Legacy Hornet. Stay with it as long as there is value then retire it. There won't be any U.S. boneyard C/D items for it as the U.S. Navy is using up the airframe life on their legacy Hornets at an alarming rate due to U.S. ops tempo. Also getting out of a U.S. supply chain management thing over the long haul is a good idea. The all knowing U.S. policy interference isn't good for sovereignty issues.

Same answer with Super Hornet for sovereignty issues. Super Hornet is also non-competitive in the region for the next 20 years. No value in that unless you have lots of cash to stand up a weapon system that is a good strike aircraft but at risk to any big SU including the big SU growth path mentioned.

MiG-29- Maintenance on this aircraft has always been dodgy. It hasn't proven itself in this area up to any reasonable standard in any air force. Investing in this aircraft is a dead end for the future.

For the long haul big SU all the way.

Makes sense. Might find a buyer for the MiGs. Reducing the number of types makes sense.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Go with the big SU-3x. The growth room for the next several years for airframe, engines, weapons, avionics is excellent. Excellent range and performance.

Legacy Hornet. Stay with it as long as there is value then retire it. There won't be any U.S. boneyard C/D items for it as the U.S. Navy is using up the airframe life on their legacy Hornets at an alarming rate due to U.S. ops tempo. Also getting out of a U.S. supply chain management thing over the long haul is a good idea. The all knowing U.S. policy interference isn't good for sovereignty issues.

Same answer with Super Hornet for sovereignty issues. Super Hornet is also non-competitive in the region for the next 20 years. No value in that unless you have lots of cash to stand up a weapon system that is a good strike aircraft but at risk to any big SU including the big SU growth path mentioned.

MiG-29- Maintenance on this aircraft has always been dodgy. It hasn't proven itself in this area up to any reasonable standard in any air force. Investing in this aircraft is a dead end for the future.

For the long haul big SU all the way.

What is the situation with the number and quality of modern training simulators on hand for pilot undergraduate, advanced and recurrent training?.

And yet despite all the armchair warriors who insist the SU-30 is SO much more capable than the Super Hornet, the worlds newest SU-30 operator, still wants to acquire the Super Hornet.

Seems a bit incongrous doesn't it? Is RMAF entirely corrupt and incompetent too? Oh wait, it's BOUGHT the SU-30 so it can't be. Can it?

Yes, the US sets VERY high requests on it's customers, don't build nuclear weapons and don't invade your neighbours. Damn me. How could any reasonable country comply with that???

 

[knightz33]

Haha....seriously....whats a country without an awacs platform?? Malaysia should really get a spyplane like the E-2c hawkeye...or the modified gulfstream 550 that has an awacs platform. Having the su-30 is a great choice. However, malaysia should concentrate more on strike aircrafts like the f-15. That would give them the upper hand in both offensive and defencive attacks. Malaysia should also have some maritime aircrafts too, like the p-3 orion. That would make malaysia a formidable force in the region. haha. Hope you like my answer dude!!!

 

[qwerty223]

The avionics on the SU-30MKM allow for the integration of other missiles. If I am not mistaken, the French offered to integrate the MBDA MICA...

Why? I mean why have to collect all the missiles in the world?

Haha....seriously....whats a country without an awacs platform?? Malaysia should really get a spyplane like the E-2c hawkeye...or the modified gulfstream 550 that has an awacs platform. Having the su-30 is a great choice. However, malaysia should concentrate more on strike aircrafts like the f-15. That would give them the upper hand in both offensive and defencive attacks. Malaysia should also have some maritime aircrafts too, like the p-3 orion. That would make malaysia a formidable force in the region. haha. Hope you like my answer dude!!!

F-15 will never be the choice before (x2 price of SUs) and after (since we had SUs) we decided to bring in our SUs. SU-30 is promoted to provide a minimum AWACS solution, how far can it goes still a myth, but USAF claims it was one of the key factors as they were being unfair treated in Cope India, which can also be a rumor.

BTW, E-2 is not a spyplane.

It is best to have everything, if you have the money. :

And yet despite all the armchair warriors who insist the SU-30 is SO much more capable than the Super Hornet, the worlds newest SU-30 operator, still wants to acquire the Super Hornet.

AD, maybe you felt offended when ppl sux about hornet since Aus had just brought in dozens of them. However your logic is misleading. Same logic, it may also applied differently to picture another polar, for example, F-15 with appropriate avionic suit is certainly superior than Super hornet, but introduction of the hornets is nothing to do with who superior against who.

Anyhow, I don't believe in so call “true multi-role”. Machines are design to achieve certain task, and they are always sort in priority. I and I suppose RMAF chiefs too, agreed that SUs for heavy-long range role, Hornets for precise strike and Migs for intercept/ air superior, is a reasonable combination. HP cpu, Dell monitor, budget wise, smart choice.

 

[swerve]

And yet despite all the armchair warriors who insist the SU-30 is SO much more capable than the Super Hornet, the worlds newest SU-30 operator, still wants to acquire the Super Hornet.

Seems a bit incongrous doesn't it? Is RMAF entirely corrupt and incompetent too? Oh wait, it's BOUGHT the SU-30 so it can't be. Can it?
...

Considering the incoherence of Malaysian air force procurement, I'd hesitate to make any judgement of the relative efficacy of weapons or systems based on it.