The Threat in 30 Years Time

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
China may become an aggressor in the coming years, but as of now it has a lot to lose. If they attack Taiwan or any other Pacific nation they will lose international finances from western companies.

"Russian politics may have changed, but the lies remain the same." I believe that Russia may have changed its old Soviet doctrine from the cold war, but now they seem to be hell bent on supplying rogue regimes, or questionable governments in an effort to create proxy wars with the west (U.S. in particular). Since they know that a head on conflict with the United States is mutual suicide, they either want to keep our military involved with Arab or middle eastern conflict. Or instill China to cause a proxy conflict with the U.S.

Iran will obviously obtain the bomb since the west will not act now to get rid of the needed facilities to produce a bomb. They want this not to use on the U.S. or west, but obviously Israel and the Arab nations. If it can not obtain that Arab oil then if will destroy the facilities needed to refine and ship or contaminate it.
Russia is supplying weapons to everyone who can afford them because they need the money in a bad way.

Russia is actually relieved that these terrorist cells are concentrated against the U.S so that they have time to have their act together when Al Qaeda decides to restart things with them.

Iran will not have the leisure to make a nuke, this issue will be settled before it happens.
 

KGB

New Member
One of the best responses to an insurgency was how the Phillipeans defeated the Huks, way back about 50 years ago. It was a three-part program, that involved applying policy and propaganda to, in the following order;
1) Your Army
2) the People
3) the Enemy

They started with thier own soldiers, making certain that morale was good and the men knew what they were fighting for. Sounds simple, but this is the very first thing that must be done.

Then you go to the people, and make them a pro-active part of the effort, and insure that they reap the benifits of your policy.
I remember a story about one man who went to the authorities to complain about three geurillars that had forced him to give them shelter. An official told him to give them some Cokes, and gave the civilian some poison to put in the soda. A few hours later, this smiling farmer came back with three heads and three guns, and was immediatly given a generous bounty.

The enemy is your last target. A terorist is basicaly an armed bum that "fights" one or two days a month, and spends the rest of his time in hiding, living off what he can extort from the people he is suppossed to be "liberating".
An amnesty policy might seem foolish, but consider this; if you set this man up with a home and a job, even humble ones, you will expose him to a life of safety and stability... and he will probably get a taste for it. Only the most worthless and psycotic would prefer a life on the run, but this only works if the society you are building can provide these things.


The problem in Iraq is that Al-Quada is a social club for psycopaths. We are dealing with a foriegn army of terrorists that are looking forward to a cultist's death. I am at a loss with this bunch, unless we can attack thier bases in Iran and elsewhere.

That was a successfull counterinsurgency; but the fundamentals of the problem were, unequal land distribution etc. were never addressed. To relieve pressure from land reform, they encouraged settlers in the Muslim south of the country. The result was that not long after, a new communist insurgency started (still alive now).
 

KGB

New Member
I think the cat is out the bag and the Iranians are going to develop and test nukes. Once they do I think others in the region will too, most probably The Saudis. Once Iran can arm enough sophisticated IRBMs with nukes then a nuclear war in the region is almost a given.
Why do you than Iran will certainly use a nuclear bomb if it aquires one? Religion doesn't equate with madness, nor equate with being impossible to deal with at a state level. Iran has a religious police, but also has a long standing jewish community. Saudi Arabia, the US ally, considers owning bibles as illegal.

The Iranians are neither Arab, nor Sunni, so I think it is unlikely that they will commit state suicide on the behalf of the Palestinians. "Death to Israel" IMHO is what politicians there say in order to turn the public attention elsewhere. I can name a couple of state leaders who started conflicts in order to get the public behind them, but I won't.

Third, the control of Iran is not as monolithic as it seems; witness the interior power struggle in Iran between its' foreign affairs office and its revolutionary guards over the British seamen. Imperial Japan could order entire armies to die fighting or commit suicide, but even that country surrendered because of the Bomb.
 

Sgt.Banes

New Member
Russia is supplying weapons to everyone who can afford them because they need the money in a bad way.

Russia is actually relieved that these terrorist cells are concentrated against the U.S so that they have time to have their act together when Al Qaeda decides to restart things with them.

Iran will not have the leisure to make a nuke, this issue will be settled before it happens.
If you're talking about sanctions then that really won't provide much of a an action. Iran is gaining th upper hand due to the west not acting on these development swiftly and with as much support as possibly.

Russia does not just want money, they want the power that comes with being a super power again. They want to sell arms not just for money, but to supply arms to enemies of the United States and the free world. By creating proxy wars or conflicts with the U.S. the Russian Federation has more time and money to build up their forces with modern and new weaponry. That is how they intend to gain back the power they lost with the collapse of the Soviet Empire.
 

Rich

Member
Why do you than Iran will certainly use a nuclear bomb if it aquires one? Religion doesn't equate with madness, nor equate with being impossible to deal with at a state level.
I would disagree about the madness thing. I believe history has shown otherwise. Add to that the religious fanatics running Iran have already stated , as national policy, they want to anhiliate a regional neighbor. These are the same Loons that sacraficed countless thousands of their own children in their war with Iraq.http://www.matthiaskuentzel.de/contents/ahmadinejads-world

In pondering the behavior of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, I cannot help but think of the 500,000 plastic keys that Iran imported from Taiwan during the Iran-Iraq War of 1980-88. At the time, an Iranian law laid down that children as young as 12 could be used to clear mine fields, even against the objections of their parents. Before every mission, a small plastic key would be hung around each of the children’s necks. It was supposed to open for them the gates to paradise.
Yes Iran has a very small Jewish community they like to show off to the world as an example of their righteousness. They have also executed at least 13 of them since the students took over in 1979. Many of these trials were sham trials and the Jewish community in Iran has seen a steady erosion of their rights and religious freedoms thru the years.

Third, the control of Iran is not as monolithic as it seems; witness the interior power struggle in Iran between its' foreign affairs office and its revolutionary guards over the British seamen. Imperial Japan could order entire armies to die fighting or commit suicide, but even that country surrendered because of the Bomb.
I dont understand what your 2'nd sentence has to do with the first. But I sure dont agree with the first. The power in Iran rests with the Surpeme Leader. Here, does this sound "Democratic" to you?http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/tehran/inside/govt.html

At the top of Iran's power structure is the Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, who succeeded Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, the father of the Iranian Revolution, upon Khomeini's death in 1989. Khomeini and Khamenei are the only two men to have held the office since the founding of the Islamic Republic in 1979.

According to Iran's Constitution, the Supreme Leader is responsible for the delineation and supervision of "the general policies of the Islamic Republic of Iran," which means that he sets the tone and direction of Iran's domestic and foreign policies. The Supreme Leader also is commander-in-chief of the armed forces and controls the Islamic Republic's intelligence and security operations; he alone can declare war or peace. He has the power to appoint and dismiss the leaders of the judiciary, the state radio and television networks, and the supreme commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. He also appoints six of the twelve members of the Council of Guardians, the powerful body that oversees the activities of Parliament and determines which candidates are qualified to run for public office.

The Supreme Leader's sphere of power is extended through his representatives, an estimated 2,000 of whom are sprinkled throughout all sectors of the government and who serve as the Leader's clerical field operatives. In some respects the Supreme Leader's representatives are more powerful than the president's ministers and have the authority to intervene in any matter of state on the Supreme Leader's behalf.

PRESIDENT

The president is the second highest ranking official in Iran. While the president has a high public profile, however, his power is in many ways trimmed back by the constitution, which subordinates the entire executive branch to the Supreme Leader. In fact, Iran is the only state in which the executive branch does not control the armed forces.

The president is responsible for setting the country's economic policies. Though he has nominal rule over the Supreme National Security Council and the Ministry of Intelligence and Security, in practice the Supreme Leader dictates all matters of foreign and domestic security. Eight vice presidents serve under the president, as well as a cabinet of 22 ministers. The Council of Ministers must be confirmed by Parliament.
 

KGB

New Member
I would disagree about the madness thing. I believe history has shown otherwise. Add to that the religious fanatics running Iran have already stated , as national policy, they want to anhiliate a regional neighbor. These are the same Loons that sacraficed countless thousands of their own children in their war with Iraq.http://www.matthiaskuentzel.de/contents/ahmadinejads-world


OK you floored me with that article. That was sick. But unfortunately sick things occur everywhere and all the time with or without religion. To me what is dangerous is not religion per se but that of a Mass Movement; as described in Eric Hoffer's book "The True Believer". That's too long to get into in this forum though.
 

KGB

New Member
My mistake. "True Believer" dealt with fanatics, I think the book dealing with Mass Movements was titled "The ordeal of change".
 

metro

New Member
The other big problem with Iran is they litterally have a an arc formed that begins in iran, then syria (which they run), Lebenon/Hizbollah, Hamas, down to sudan. Iran is calculating that it can deter an attack from the US, based on direct iranian retaliation stikes and its proxies, against the the the saudis/oil, gulf states/oil jordanians, egyptians and israel.
Israel doesn't have any great way of going after Iran on its own. The direct route-jardan-iraq-iran, will be seen as Israel getting approval of the arab states to flyover, and than us (US) allowing Israel through. If Israel goes the long way around, they can avoid the arab states but we have so many assets on the water, there's no way, "we never saw them coming" will work.
Plus Israel doesn't want to have to send its AF out of the country as at the first word of an attack, syria, hizbollah, and hamas will start with israel.
The only way to do it, the US has to attack iran and Israel has to simultaniously attack syria and hizbollah.

If you want to know how or why europe is threatened by iran, ask Mr. Bill Clinton. Clinton knew as early as 93', 94' that iran was already testing the rockets for the plans from russia for its SS-4 (Shihab 4). Clinton never stopped the missle transfers because he "was making so much progress with them and he didn't want to hurt any chances to for a great new, friendly russia." Clinton also approved the sale of a large part of Iran's nuclear program from France ($5B).

It's been illegal for any US companies to sell to Iran or work with any company that did. Clinton, got around the law by saying/signing off on the trade, "for national security reasons/interests." I'm still trying to figure those out. Clinton's russian mission, actually helped finance/subsidize russian military sales to Iran.

If the world only knew. It's all available to read due to the congress not wanting to have any part of Clinton's mission to Russia.
 

ahussains

New Member
WE all have to realise the problems that every one faces and listen each other respect every ones RELIGON and work for the HUMANITY...
 

eckherl

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
If you're talking about sanctions then that really won't provide much of a an action. Iran is gaining th upper hand due to the west not acting on these development swiftly and with as much support as possibly.

Russia does not just want money, they want the power that comes with being a super power again. They want to sell arms not just for money, but to supply arms to enemies of the United States and the free world. By creating proxy wars or conflicts with the U.S. the Russian Federation has more time and money to build up their forces with modern and new weaponry. That is how they intend to gain back the power they lost with the collapse of the Soviet Empire.
I am not counting on sanctions, someone will act militarly to prevent them in having a bomb.

Of course Russia wants power and they will have it with their natural resources, how is Russia building proxy wars against us, the same terrorists that hate us also hate the Russians and have been behind some of the attacks in Russia. The weapons sales have barely kept their economy afloat but it has provided the funds needed, for survival this is a must have at the current time.

Russia is not too concerned with us and they do not view us as a threat to their security interest, the U.S is the one that has initiated the little proxy wars with some of it justified and some of it not, with our invasion of Iraq all we have accomplished is a total destabilization of the entire Middle East and Russia and Western Europe will feel the effects of this also in the future. No wonder everybody for the most part is pissed at us.
 

Sgt.Banes

New Member
I am not counting on sanctions, someone will act militarly to prevent them in having a bomb.

Of course Russia wants power and they will have it with their natural resources, how is Russia building proxy wars against us, the same terrorists that hate us also hate the Russians and have been behind some of the attacks in Russia. The weapons sales have barely kept their economy afloat but it has provided the funds needed, for survival this is a must have at the current time.

Russia is not too concerned with us and they do not view us as a threat to their security interest, the U.S is the one that has initiated the little proxy wars with some of it justified and some of it not, with our invasion of Iraq all we have accomplished is a total destabilization of the entire Middle East and Russia and Western Europe will feel the effects of this also in the future. No wonder everybody for the most part is pissed at us.
The middle east has in general been destabilized for decades, its just now becoming more tense and more risky now that the U.S. is again taking more direct action in the region. But what I mean by Russia feeding the enemy nations of the United States, you see the rise in organizations and questionable regimes with motive and weapons to wage war against the United States and the west. I'm simply saying that in that I see Russia as a threat in the long run because of these military deals with China, Pakistan, and that Chavez in Latin America.
 

Manfred

New Member
Im never sure just WHAT to think of Russia. These days, they seem to be happy with being a large, sloppy version of France, and most cities have a neighboor hood that loooks and behaves like Deadwood. Cash is king, and trade follows sentiments almost as often as the reverse is true.

Deadwood- a boom-town in the Wild West days, it's very existance was illegal, and violence and crime were not just common- it was how buiness was done.
 

Sgt.Banes

New Member
Im never sure just WHAT to think of Russia. These days, they seem to be happy with being a large, sloppy version of France, and most cities have a neighboor hood that loooks and behaves like Deadwood. Cash is king, and trade follows sentiments almost as often as the reverse is true.

Deadwood- a boom-town in the Wild West days, it's very existance was illegal, and violence and crime were not just common- it was how buiness was done.
Sometimes they seem to support or at least have some common interest as the west or the United States.
 
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