Would Be Britain Able To Mount An Operation Similar To Faklands War Of 1982 ??

[gf0012-aust]

This is the second time he's made basing mistakes with Diego Garcia, he must love that base:heart

I must be getting old, I don't even recall the first time i mentioned Diego Garcia for a tac scenario....

 

[Big-E]

I must be getting old, I don't even recall the first time i mentioned Diego Garcia for a tac scenario....

I think it had something to do with F-22s based in Kuwait and you suggested it would be better to put them in Diego Garcia running AAW missions in Iran.

 

[gf0012-aust]

I think it had something to do with F-22s based in Kuwait and you suggested it would be better to put them in Diego Garcia running AAW missions in Iran.

If I said that then I must have been intellectually overfatigued, as its nonsensical at the logistics level. There are far easier ways to deploy F-22's into Iran. (apart from the fact that I think that F-22's aren't necessarily the approp day-1 response for fighting Iran anyway)

As for the Falklands, the comment was more of an issue of causing a thinking dislocation for the Peruvians. It would be easy for the RN to actually lock up Peruvian maritime capability with one nuke - and I don't have any degree of confidence that the Peruvians and Argentinias (or Bolivians for that matter) have at the ASW level.

I wasn't implying that war fighting could be done from Diego Garcia - just that it provides a flanking resupply line, albeit longrange.

 

[Seaforth]

South America alliance improbable

For those of you who haven't been there, South America's a huge place with widely differing viewpoints and interests.

A joint South American force attack on the Falklands is extremely improbable.

Fact remains that the Falklands remain at the limit of endurance for Argentine air assets, the weather's miserable, and an attack would be extremely tough.

Intelligence *should* provide some warning, and assets can be brought to bear from UK/Germany within 48 hours. (Provided the intelligence is read correctly...)

I really don't fancy the chances of a Mirage/Skyhawk/Sup Etendard and small naval invasion force against TornadoF&GR/AWACS/NimrodR&MR airforce. Not to mention the fact that invading force would be up against a dug-in British Army of at least 500 (assuming no more flown in....) Experience counts so much more than numbers now.

 

[Whiskyjack]

I wasn't implying that war fighting could be done from Diego Garcia - just that it provides a flanking resupply line, albeit longrange.

You wouldn't be referring to Ascension Island instead of Diego Garcia?

 

[chrisrobsoar]

You wouldn't be referring to Ascension Island instead of Diego Garcia?

Ascension Island is the staging post for flights to MPA. The journey is about 4,000 miles from the UK to the Ascension Island and 5,000 miles to MPA. The trip now also takes 18hrs in chartered aircraft (B767 etc).

In the old days in a C-130 it took more than 24hrs.

http://www.falklandislands.com/tourism/get_here.asp


Chris

 

[Big-E]

Ascension Island is the staging post for flights to MPA. The journey is about 4,000 miles from the UK to the Ascension Island and 5,000 miles to MPA. The trip now also takes 18hrs in chartered aircraft (B767 etc).

In the old days in a C-130 it took more than 24hrs.

http://www.falklandislands.com/tourism/get_here.asp


Chris

That's a pretty long flight. What would happen if the Argies decided to launch a raid on Ascension Island and destroy the facilities? Would the RAF be able to make it to reinforce the Falklands distance wise?

 

[perfectgeneral]

If you have anything that supports your claim of Chili supporting the UK as of today I will entertain it.

I don't think they would support UK, but they are a long way from any alliance with Argentina. Diplomatic gestures are about as far as it goes. They have a long history of ill feeling towards each other.

As for the Falklands, it is safely in UK hands with or without Chileans in the hypothetical alliance. MPA allows rapid reinforcement. The garrison is large enough to allow time to reinforce and we have the forces to bring in at short notice. In the unlikely event of the island falling into the hands of some misguided aggressor, we have a CBG and MEF of our own, no nukes or US assets would be required.

 

[Sea Toby]

How can the Argentine navy be in two places at once? The runways and fuel tanks at Ascension Island can be easily repaired or replaced. The British can replace the fuel tanks by flying in a number of tanker trucks for the short term, building new fuel tanks probably wouldn't take a week, while one oiler could replace the fuel in the new tanks quickly.

You can bet that if the British saw an Argentine frigate headed for Ascension via their satellite or other intelligence, fighters would be deployed to Ascension Island to defend it.

Simply put, an Argie attack on Ascension is an attack on the United Kingdom, just as much as an attack on the Falklands. Sovereignty is never for sale.

The Argentine people also learned this from the first war in 1982: The Falkland Islanders are of British descent and wish to remain British. When they liberated the islands back in 1982 they thought the local population would support them. Sadly, and to their amazement, their soldiers weren't welcomed.

 

[gf0012-aust]

You wouldn't be referring to Ascension Island instead of Diego Garcia?

Yes I was. I had a little brain fart between my thinking and my typing.

 

[Big-E]

How can the Argentine navy be in two places at once?

hmmm... b/c they have more than one boat :crazy

The runways and fuel tanks at Ascension Island can be easily repaired or replaced.

Not if they mine them.

You can bet that if the British saw an Argentine frigate headed for Ascension via their satellite or other intelligence, fighters would be deployed to Ascension Island to defend it.

I'm sure they would but Argentina isn't stupid enough to send highly observable transports like frigates. The Argy ACPA (SEALs counterpart) is fuilly capable of deploying from subs as displayed in the attachment. It would not take much to overpower the contractors and air personell at Wideawake RAFB. Considering it's called Wideawake it's almost ironic how Deadasleep it's defenses are.

Simply put, an Argie attack on Ascension is an attack on the United Kingdom, just as much as an attack on the Falklands. Sovereignty is never for sale.

Not like that ever stopped them before.

 

[Seaforth]

Ascension Island is a US base too...

I doubt the Argentines would like to attack that!
:kar

 

[Big-E]

I doubt the Argentines would like to attack that!
:kar

If they have designs on the Falklands and want to keep the RAF out of action they have no choice.

 

[chrisrobsoar]

Other options, all in miles.

New Zealand is 5,200 to MPA.

Belize is 5,100 to MPA.

California 5,500 to MPA (California to UK 4,300).

MPA is also only 4,000 from Cape Town.

There are also other bases in Pacific.

Ascension Island is also defended and has the facilities in place for rapid reinforcement.

Another consideration is that the US Air Force also route through Ascension Island.

Chris

 

[Whiskyjack]

If they have designs on the Falklands and want to keep the RAF out of action they have no choice.

I agree, I doubt the Argentineans would make the same mistakes twice!

Would also make sense to place an SSK up there and interdict early, or at least threaten the possibility, that means the RN have to be wary for 4000-5000 nm.

Just as a matter of interest does anyone know how the Argentine military is positioned these days, I have not seen a lot of details over the years of a modernisation and after the economic melt down they had a few years back I am sure there training, logistics and general equipment availability can’t be that good.

 

[Big-E]

Other options, all in miles.

New Zealand is 5,200 to MPA.

Belize is 5,100 to MPA.

California 5,500 to MPA (California to UK 4,300).

MPA is also only 4,000 from Cape Town.

There are also other bases in Pacific.

Ascension Island is also defended and has the facilities in place for rapid reinforcement.

Another consideration is that the US Air Force also route through Ascension Island.

Chris

Does the RAF have tankers to get fighters to MPA at 4,000+nm?

 

[contedicavour]

Falklands ... 2006

Seriously, if the same scenario happened again, 2 or 3 Trafalgar SSNs equipped with Tomahawks would wipe out any serious naval asset or airbase. Imagine what would happen to Argentine aircrafts in their bases once a wave of TLAMs has taken care of them...

Today's Argentine Navy has no LPDs by the way. It would take time to start deploying with no LPDs regiments with artillery and armour to the Falklands.

Today's Royal Navy has 2 new LPDs and a very good LPH, besides at least 2 Invincibles. A couple of T45s would enough to provide air cover against whatever Mirages or A4s or Super Etendards that would have survived the TLAMs ...

No match whatsoever. Even against the strange alliance that I've read about in this thread between South American countries (the modern democracy of Chile allied with a Chavez-Argentina-Peru coalition ?? not in this century anyway !! ). A dozen F16Cs from Chile or 10 Mirage 2000 from Peru wouldn't change anything in this scenario because they wouldn't be enough to overcome the air cover provided by the Aster-30s embarked on the T45 Darings (or even the Sea Dart on the T42s). And anyway, the Tomahawks would destroy the airbases before the aircrafts could take off !! :

Once the Royal Marines would have retaken Stanley, a dozen Typhoons would handle whatever fighter the current South American air forces could send. Which makes me wonder : why doesn't the RAF just keep a few Typhoons in Stanley, so that any threat would be erased before materialising...

cheers

 

[Waylander]

There are nor operational EF squads and there is no operational Type 45 DDG.

 

[Big-E]

There are nor operational EF squads and there is no operational Type 45 DDG.

Right on, if they had EF and 45s then it's no contest but I think this thread is supposed to show that the RN and RAF have some serious weakness' in the South Atlantic ATM.

 

[contedicavour]

There are nor operational EF squads and there is no operational Type 45 DDG.

EF are really close to being operational. In Italy our 4th squadron is already operational with Typhoon for air defence purposes over central Italy (base in Grosseto). If we've managed to get our first 12 Typhoons ready with AIM-120B & C and IRIS-T missiles, I'm pretty sure the RAF can as well.

On the T45s, yes you're right. T42s with Sea Darts should be enough though versus the current threat Argentina (or the SA alliance) would pose.

cheers