Why the USMC should not buy the "IAR"

[willur]

What is the IA drill for a SAW, btw?

immediate action drill ie: reloading or changing a barrel or stoppage etc.

IA(been a while)
1/ cock action 2/ lift feed cover inspect feed plate, lift feed plate inspect chamber 3/if clear lower feed plate locate belt close feed cover 4/ continue firing

 

[gf0012-aust]

immediate action drill ie: reloading or changing a barrel or stoppage etc.

He knows what an IA drill is, he's asking you to specifically run through the SAW drill....

 

[ReAl PrOeLiTeZ]

I knew someone was going to post that damn video! For one SAW gunners don't carry their ammo like that just hanging down they have boxes to carry ammo. I laugh at how hey dubs the gunshot sounds to make it sound like their firing more rounds then they really are and those so called demonstrations prove nothing. Future Weapons is nothing more than a sales pitch and its extremely biased and most of the info is completely wrong and misstated and the host of the show is just a clown. I've seen a few crappy shows of future weapons but this one is by far the weakest one yet. The host knows the SAW had boxes for ammo and it can accept 30 round mags and he knows this but he lies for the show. And he clams he is a ex-Navy Seal sniper but he has never seen a SAW in combat?

Sorry but I think the SAW is better and the IAR will only complement the SAW not replace it. And Future weapons is no place to get info from.

i DIDNT post the video, lol it was a quote from another guy that posted the video. read my post before replying, if you havent noticed what you wrote had nothing related or hinted any argument to my post. but to the guy who posted the video.

i think your missing the point. i never said replace the M249, i said that squads should have something lighter then the M249 for squads. something simular to IAR but with more ammo capacity.

 

[Abraham Gubler]

If you want I can post some videos of fire fights from Iraq and it shows why they need the SAW and an automatic M16 just wont do it.

I'm amazed at how far you are willing to go to support your opinion. Claiming that Machowicz lied on TV because he is corrupted - when all he was doing was demonstrating how difficult it is to handle a belt, they don't come and stay for ever in cans or pouches - and that others (including him) with actual training in how to use a section level machinegun don't know what they are talking about. And that the IAR is "just an M16"... And now you think you can post some video from You Tube to support your knowledge poor point of view?

I've also noticed a range of other 'out there' machinegun opinions you have like how the XM307 is not being produced because it lacks rate of fire. Total nonsense and devoid or all relation to the funding of the FCS project, what GD ATP are doing with the XM307 and how many rounds you can actually fire in a minute through a M2HB (which is very different to its cyclic rate of fire).

If you ever have the courage to match your convictions and serve in a machinegun role you will discover that holding down the trigger until the gun goes click is only something you do in an absolute emergency or a sustained fire mode. A weapon like the IAR will provide the US Marines with a light weight and hence mobile and sustainable weapon that can provide sustained bursts of fire in a range of tactical situations with less impact on the endurance of the Marine who has to operate it compared to a SAW/Minimi.

 

[lobbie111]

I'm amazed at how far you are willing to go to support your opinion. Claiming that Machowicz lied on TV because he is corrupted - when all he was doing was demonstrating how difficult it is to handle a belt, they don't come and stay for ever in cans or pouches - and that others (including him) with actual training in how to use a section level machinegun don't know what they are talking about. And that the IAR is "just an M16"... And now you think you can post some video from You Tube to support your knowledge poor point of view?

I've also noticed a range of other 'out there' machinegun opinions you have like how the XM307 is not being produced because it lacks rate of fire. Total nonsense and devoid or all relation to the funding of the FCS project, what GD ATP are doing with the XM307 and how many rounds you can actually fire in a minute through a M2HB (which is very different to its cyclic rate of fire).

If you ever have the courage to match your convictions and serve in a machinegun role you will discover that holding down the trigger until the gun goes click is only something you do in an absolute emergency or a sustained fire mode. A weapon like the IAR will provide the US Marines with a light weight and hence mobile and sustainable weapon that can provide sustained bursts of fire in a range of tactical situations with less impact on the endurance of the Marine who has to operate it compared to a SAW/Minimi.

Completly agree, as it reflects my previous statements

All of the people who have posted here have tried to convince you that this is to complement the M249 NOT replace it, and you have stated several times that you believe that this should be complimenting the SAW not replacing it, so what the hell are you arguing about? are you just trying to keep your thread alive?

 

[F-15 Eagle]

I'm amazed at how far you are willing to go to support your opinion. Claiming that Machowicz lied on TV because he is corrupted - when all he was doing was demonstrating how difficult it is to handle a belt, they don't come and stay for ever in cans or pouches - and that others (including him) with actual training in how to use a section level machinegun don't know what they are talking about. And that the IAR is "just an M16"... And now you think you can post some video from You Tube to support your knowledge poor point of view?

I've also noticed a range of other 'out there' machinegun opinions you have like how the XM307 is not being produced because it lacks rate of fire. Total nonsense and devoid or all relation to the funding of the FCS project, what GD ATP are doing with the XM307 and how many rounds you can actually fire in a minute through a M2HB (which is very different to its cyclic rate of fire).

If you ever have the courage to match your convictions and serve in a machinegun role you will discover that holding down the trigger until the gun goes click is only something you do in an absolute emergency or a sustained fire mode. A weapon like the IAR will provide the US Marines with a light weight and hence mobile and sustainable weapon that can provide sustained bursts of fire in a range of tactical situations with less impact on the endurance of the Marine who has to operate it compared to a SAW/Minimi.

You don't live in the U.S. which mans you never have been in the USMC which also means you never been in Iraq so that tells me you can't back anything up because you would not know first hand and so your opinions still fail to convince me to believe in the IAR or the XM307 for that matter. Because you are only posting your own opinions and calling them facts, and you attack me for doing this?nfloorl:

If you don't like what I have to say and can't deal with it than maybe you should just not post on my threads or reply to the posts that I make.

 

[gf0012-aust]

You don't live in the U.S. which mans you never have been in the USMC which also means you never been in Iraq so that tells me you can't back anything up because you would not know first hand and so your opinions still fail to convince me to believe in the IAR or the XM307 for that matter. Because you are only posting your own opinions and calling them facts, and you attack me for doing this?nfloorl:

If you don't like what I have to say and can't deal with it than maybe you should just not post on my threads or reply to the posts that I make.

Thats not a defence to your argument.

eg, I'm not american and don't live in the US - but I can guarantee that I see far more US hi-tech gear than most US born posters due to the nature of my job.

In the same light, I can and will guarantee that Abe sees and gets far greater access and insight into US (and lots of other) weapons systems than a lot of people because of the work that he does,

You shouldn't assume that your birthright and wearing a uniform gives you greater leverage than a non US national. In both examples (Abe and myself) it clearly does not.

In the same light, seeing that it is a point of difference and credibility for you - have you ever served in the USMC (or US military) to be so sure about yourself? It's a fair question in light of your attempt to support your position. If so, like all others who make claims about prior service, we'd expect you to provide evidence or withdraw the inference (ie alluded competence by association)

btw, Abe has served - and has seen far more weapons systems than the average US soldier would probably see in a "service lifetime"

Bear in mind that there are other people who have served who are supporting Abes comments - and a few of these people have first hand experience handling these weapons. Again, for you to support your claims, one would expect that you can provide a service history that shows operational knowledge.

 

[dobrodan]

You don't live in the U.S. which mans you never have been in the USMC which also means you never been in Iraq so that tells me you can't back anything up because you would not know first hand and so your opinions still fail to convince me to believe in the IAR or the XM307 for that matter. Because you are only posting your own opinions and calling them facts, and you attack me for doing this?nfloorl:

If you don't like what I have to say and can't deal with it than maybe you should just not post on my threads or reply to the posts that I make.

So, unless you are an American, you could never go to Iraq?nfloorl:

Have you been to Iraq? Your profile says that you haven´t even been in the Salvation Army...nfloorl:

Anyway, a lot of American US Marines have been to Iraq, and evidently, quite a few of them wants the IAR and the XM307...

 

[Chino]

I have little experience with belt guns as our SAW is the Ultimax. What I want to ask has nothing to do with any of the ongoing discussions here, but...

1) How do M249 gunners or assistant carry the spare ammo?

2) Can anyone give me a blow-by-blow of how an M249 is reloaded? When last round of a belt is fired, what happens next?

I am also curious about the pouch attached to the weapon that holds the belt ammo.

During reloading do you remove the empty pouch and attach a new one already with ammo inside or simply drop in a new belt into the empty pouch?

 

[lobbie111]

immediate action drill ie: reloading or changing a barrel or stoppage etc.

IA(been a while)
1/ cock action 2/ lift feed cover inspect feed plate, lift feed plate inspect chamber 3/if clear lower feed plate locate belt close feed cover 4/ continue firing

That should give you some idea chino

 

[Chino]

" IA(been a while)
1/ cock action 2/ lift feed cover inspect feed plate, lift feed plate inspect chamber 3/if clear lower feed plate locate belt close feed cover 4/ continue firing"
That should give you some idea chino

No. It's only an IA drill and not the full reloading process.

I suspect a reloading process for the M249, upon last round being fired, would be something like this:

1/ take out spare ammo.
2/ dump spare ammo into pouch attached to M249
3/ lift feed cover
4/ thread ammo
5/ close feed cover
6/ cock weapon

I'm most curious about points number 1 & 2. As I asked previously, where and how the spare ammo is carried, and do you change the whole pouch or just put the new ammo into the (now) empty pouch that is attached to the M249.

I have reloaded a FN MAG before. But since our versions did not come with a pouch attached to the weapon, my question is primarily focused on that.

 

[kotay]

I'm most curious about points number 1 & 2. As I asked previously, where and how the spare ammo is carried, and do you change the whole pouch or just put the new ammo into the (now) empty pouch that is attached to the M249.

IIRC, from hazy memory of a joint-ex with the USMC a looong time ago. The 200 round links comes in a plastic box mag. It's carried either slung on a bandolier or a (storage) pouch on the LBV

So the gunner has a choice of
i) reloading the soft (feed) pouch from the hard box if he only has one pouch.
ii) clipping on a new soft pouch if he has more than one soft pouch.
iii) clipping on the plastic box directly (which wasn't preferred).
iv) feeding from a belt that had been emptied into a SAW pouch on the Molle/LBV - which I've only seen 1 doing.

hope that helps

 

[eckherl]

That should give you some idea chino

He forgot to add place weapon on safe before opening feed tray cover.

 

[eckherl]

No. It's only an IA drill and not the full reloading process.

I suspect a reloading process for the M249, upon last round being fired, would be something like this:

1/ take out spare ammo.
2/ dump spare ammo into pouch attached to M249
3/ lift feed cover
4/ thread ammo
5/ close feed cover
6/ cock weapon

I'm most curious about points number 1 & 2. As I asked previously, where and how the spare ammo is carried, and do you change the whole pouch or just put the new ammo into the (now) empty pouch that is attached to the M249.

I have reloaded a FN MAG before. But since our versions did not come with a pouch attached to the weapon, my question is primarily focused on that.

You guys do not place your weapons on safe before opening your feed tray covers, what happens if you have a stuck round cook off.

 

[OPSSG]

You guys do not place your weapons on safe before opening your feed tray covers, what happens if you have a stuck round cook off.

I was laughing when I read your post on 'place your weapons on safe'.nfloorl:

Sorry Chino/kotay. I'm always a little worried at the range, especially when one of the conscript drivers/cooks (I know, no more cooks in our army vocation list) have an IA, particularly, when they start to turn to me for help. The rifle also tends to move, with their request for help.

In context, most of our our medics and riflemen do not have to deal with chain fed weapons. Even our light machine gun (or section support weapon), the Ultimax is magazine fed. The only infantry weapon that we use that is chain fed is the GPMG. So not many of our guys are GPMG trained.

 

[eckherl]

You don't live in the U.S. which mans you never have been in the USMC which also means you never been in Iraq so that tells me you can't back anything up because you would not know first hand and so your opinions still fail to convince me to believe in the IAR or the XM307 for that matter. Because you are only posting your own opinions and calling them facts, and you attack me for doing this?nfloorl:

If you don't like what I have to say and can't deal with it than maybe you should just not post on my threads or reply to the posts that I make.

Not trying to start a argument with you but I asked you a few posts ago on the reason why the US Marines are even looking into the IAR. The reason being is due to the fact that some of the SAWS are just getting worn out and need replacement, so why not look at something that can give them sustained fire and is lighter in weight, have you ever fired a sizable amount of rounds through a M16 series rifle on full auto or three shot burst, if you have then you would know on how hot they will become, the IAR design will help assist in overheating. You should also listen to some of the other guys on this thread, they may not be U.S Marines but they do talk with experience.

 

[kotay]

You guys do not place your weapons on safe before opening your feed tray covers, what happens if you have a stuck round cook off.

eckherl, could you explain this one? I'm not quite sure how the safety being on is going to help in the case of a stuck round cooking off. The round is going to cook off regardless of the safety isn't it?

In any case, OPSSG is right, most SAF soldiers are not formally trained in belt fed weapons. But I do vaguely remember that the FN MAG is loaded from a closed bolt position, with the safety off ... and the safety applied after cocking.

The safety on/open cover vaguely reminds of the clearing procedure ... something like, cock weapon, safety on, lift feed cover, inspect.

 

[eckherl]

eckherl, could you explain this one? I'm not quite sure how the safety being on is going to help in the case of a stuck round cooking off. The round is going to cook off regardless of the safety isn't it?

In any case, OPSSG is right, most SAF soldiers are not formally trained in belt fed weapons. But I do vaguely remember that the FN MAG is loaded from a closed bolt position, with the safety off ... and the safety applied after cocking.

The safety on/open cover vaguely reminds of the clearing procedure ... something like, cock weapon, safety on, lift feed cover, inspect.

Snickeys, ammo cook off was a piss poor term to use, U.S Armor crewmen are trained to perform the following steps for immediate actions, functions checks, clearing and loading of M240 crew served weapons.

1. Ensure safety is in the firing position
2. Charge the weapon
3. Place the safety in the S position.
4. Open cover.
5. Remove source of ammunition if present
6. Raise the feed tray
7. Look or feel into the chamber
8. Lower feed tray cover
9. Place safety to fire position
10. Ease the recoiling parts forward
11. Place link belt in feed tray over belt holding pawns, open link down
12. close cover and charge weapon
13. Place weapon safety to on until needed.

Would this not be the same procedure for a SAW firing belts.

 

[Chino]

You guys do not place your weapons on safe before opening your feed tray covers, what happens if you have a stuck round cook off.

SOP is to put to safe for IA, reloading etc for all firearms I've handled in SAF.

That I did not put it down on the list just mean I was being lazy when making the list.

But as I said, my emphasis of my query was on the pouch issue, which Kotay had already shed some light.

Do you have any experience with an M249 to share? Do you put new belt into the empty pouch or do you change the entire pouch?

 

[eckherl]

SOP is to put to safe for IA, reloading etc for all firearms I've handled in SAF.

That I did not put it down on the list just mean I was being lazy when making the list.

But as I said, my emphasis of my query was on the pouch issue, which Kotay had already shed some light.

Do you have any experience with an M249 to share? Do you put new belt into the empty pouch or do you change the entire pouch?

I really do not have alot of experience with this weapon, but I have a friend who is a Infantry Platoon SGT that I will be working with today and I will find out for you. This of course will be a U.S Army task procedure and will find out on how they are trained to do it versus on what goes on out in the field.