Why Iran should be worried!

[Mardini]

Read the "Diploma-Language" in that and try to understand the place the President actually has in this Theocratic Dictatorship. All that Ahmadinejad has been saying "is", and "has been", the official policy of the Theocratic leadership of Iran. The Office of the President was created, and then filled, in order to be a lightening rod for limited dissent and media criticism. In other words instead of allowing the people to get pissed off at the Mullahs, who actually hold the power, they instead deflect their anger by creating a Presidential office and blaming him.



Ahmadinejad is not a "strongman". He is a puppet! How many times do I have to tell people that? He and the Mullahs are drinking tea together every night plotting their next misinformation and divide and conquer move.

"Considering a change of Policy"? Oh that's beautiful! These aren't your average "ignorant of the west" Mullahs. They know they need to divide and conquer diplomatically useing the tool of Language. Those four words should gain them 4 to 6 months in their march to the bomb and should cause further division in the west. Adolf Hitler did a lot of "considering" between 1936-1939 as well, with each "consideration" giving him about 6 months leeway.

And despite the millions of lessons that lie in the study of history we still dont learn do we? Just look at the millions of intelligent people who are still manipulated by propaganda and dogma. I keep telling my fellow Yanks not to underestimate these Iranians. They are not to be confused with Arabs and wont make the same mistakes. They are children of the East, not the middle east, which makes them subtle and patient.

They may not understand modern war but I bet they have read Sun Tzu and to understand what they are doing, thinking, and saying, you have to delve underneath the obvious.

Are we a bit prejudiced?
the arabs you are mentioning once ruled one of the greatest empires ever of this planet and they brought civilization, peaceful co-existence and enlightment to Europe. Do not confuse the arabic people with the arabic rulers, it is two different issues, do you honestly believe arab people identify themselves with these corrupt and murderous puppets? they still dream of the days of Andalucia, Sevillia and Cordoba where they were modern, tolerant and peacefull. One can due to known reasons not say the same about the Mid east today.

 

[Grand Danois]

Having Israel as enemy # 1 is a battle of perceptions. The Iranian leadership is as pragmatic as every other leadership, with dogmatism being mostly a front.

The Iranians are very nationalistic and playing the long game.

I know I am taking part in it, but we're digressing or what? We getter get back on track.

 

[atilla]

İran or irans today goverment or system????

there is a thin line by saying iran should be worried or İrans gowerment should be worried

I take it İrans gowerment should worried

1-Molla regıme needs an apponet to hold because they dont have too much support lıke they have after sah
2- Israel needs irans molla regime to show they are rıght and also to have an support from usa
3- Usa needs ırans molla goverment to prove they have right to be in iraq and right to be in mid east

4- russia needs a port on gulf and also control of oil reserves and needs to make sure no entrence to ıts back yard since USA is in afganistan close to central asia

what happens here happens to poor ıraqıes and ordınary people real sıdes are not even fıghtıng agınst eachother rest ıs doıng the fight

Some says İran has nuclear weapons İran had the strongest army in europe and ın asıa in ŞAH time that wasnt problem ?????

At that time iran was against russia now getting equipment from russia
result of cold wars unknown sharings of world
isnt it strange ??

 

[eckherl]

you all speak as if it is a jungle we are living in...try and think about the consequences for a minute, do you really think the world would be a better place if Israel pulls such an idiotic stunt? the attack on Osirak in Iraq and the political situation at that time, and the one today is totally different from now, the player is totally differrent. Israel and the west have everything to lose, the iranian regime has nothing. Having nukes or not, that doesn't allow anyone to just go and bomb another, would this have been you oppinion if Iran or an arabic country at that time had bombed Dimona nuce plant in Israel, mind you with nukes? at least do not have a double standard! I am sure some of you will probably say that the Iranian president has threatened Israel with destruction, now this is totally political propaganda in which he hopes to find some cheap support in the muslim/arabic world by trying to woo popular view, because his regime is under so much pressure. The other thing is that people tend to forget that Israel is the only nuclear power in the whole region! and for a country of barely 6 mio people having +200 nukes and plenty of other WMD, and have previously threatened to use them against its neighbours, even the ones whom they signed peace treaties with, is by my oppinion something to worry about, anyway some of your enthusiasm to protect little Israel will most likely be felt just outside our home doors here in the west if Israel goes on with this stunt, as the middle east and the muslim and arab world would be on fire, and since someone has to pay for this guess who that someone will be?
Disclaimer: (this is necessary today or else I will be accused of this and that)
I do not support or in any way like the iranian or any other middle eastern regime, this is totally viewed from a "action-reaction" point of view, and I do not accept anykind of idiotic acts of aggression from any part what so ever.

I think that you get the impression that I am personally looking forward to Israel making such a move, which I am really not, at least until some other issues are taken care of first. Iran will not have the option of having nukes, and we have already had this Jihad come to our doors, there will be a price to pay for this.

 

[Bawbel]

this solely relies on the policy the US will wage in the area. If they do it good, then maybe if they do it bad as they are doing know, they will have a worse generation than know....

Yes, US has to allow the people of Iran find their policy. If they are educated they will make rational decisions. If they are fueled by religion and hatred they will make irrational decisions. The younger generation of Iran is ready for a change. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3354536,00.html

 

[Ths]

Mardini: We can all cling to past glories.
The greatest empire - well I think not, as before Columbus ALL of the Americas were under Denmark. But the situation has changed.

Explanatory not:

The diocese in Greenland was under the archdiocese in Lund, which was the Danish archdiocese. Under the diocese in Greenland was Wineland with all that entails - i.e. America.
How we lost it: We forgot we had it!

 

[Scorpius]

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...354536,00.html

sounds like another Chalabi to me,to be honest.

 

[Rich]

Yes, US has to allow the people of Iran find their policy. If they are educated they will make rational decisions. If they are fueled by religion and hatred they will make irrational decisions. The younger generation of Iran is ready for a change. http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3354536,00.html

The problem with that is the "younger generation" indeed "anyone in Iran" cant change anything. The power is held by a very small group of Mullahs who are not elected and cant be removed. Except by the Religious Supreme Leader.

Rewind your tape to the heady days of the '70s when Ayatollah Khomenie, from his sanctuary in France, promised the Iranian masses a Islamic Democracy. Once he actually got the power in Iran he took a good look around, decided he liked his new living arrangements, and installed himself as Dictator. Sending his minions out to murder every potential enemy in kangaroo religious courts. The current leaders of Iran were there too and I dont see them showing weakness like the Shah did. They will murder or jail anyone that opposes them and do so without mercy. This is, after all, the same bunch that sent children barefoot thru Iraqi minefields, or on motor scooters, to clear paths for the following infantry.

But this illusion of a Republic is useful to them and it serves their purposes if the idiot west thinks the average Iranian has some input in the policies of their Government. Its a useful illusion at home as well I think and it allows enough social steam to be let off without actually losing control. When you think about it "Religion" has always been one of the better control tools of Tyrants throughout the long march of history.

Either way the paragraph I quoted has no basis in reality. The "people of Iran" are not "finding their policy". They are being told what it is, and then they have no alternative then to accept it. They are living in a Theocratic Dictatorship that answers to no one but itself.

 

[Mardini]

QUOTE=Ths;89467]Mardini: We can all cling to past glories.
The greatest empire - well I think not, as before Columbus ALL of the Americas were under Denmark. But the situation has changed.

I said ONE of the greatest, and that is actually a fact, if you look on size, power, income and influence
Haha are you serious? just because it is popular belief in Denmark that Leif den lykkelige discovered America before Columbus doesn't make it a fact! The Vinland you are talking about is only mentioned peripherally in Icelandic sagas, the list today is long about who discovered America, I personally do not care at all since 1) I dont care 2)this has nothing to do with my contribution And I doubt ALL of the Americas were under Denmark, I will eat my hat if this is true though hehe, no just kidding there hasn't been found any evidence supporting that claim, plus do you want to hear who is said to have discovered America know? http://me.smartlog.dk/39744_Columbus_opdagede_ikke_Amerika.html and about your Vikings in Vinland http://www.skeptica.dk/bibliotek/vinland/01.htm sorry guys it is entirely in danish, but claims that a muslim chinese discovered american and drew a map of it before columbus sat foot on american soil, the other link describes something about the Vikings and the claim that the americas were under danish rule before columbus arrived, I must point out though that these are not scientifical studies but contribution from individuals it is funny though
pøj pøj

Explanatory not:

The diocese in Greenland was under the archdiocese in Lund, which was the Danish archdiocese. Under the diocese in Greenland was Wineland with all that entails - i.e. America.
How we lost it: We forgot we had it![/QUOTE]

 

[Mardini]

The problem with that is the "younger generation" indeed "anyone in Iran" cant change anything. The power is held by a very small group of Mullahs who are not elected and cant be removed. Except by the Religious Supreme Leader.

Rewind your tape to the heady days of the '70s when Ayatollah Khomenie, from his sanctuary in France, promised the Iranian masses a Islamic Democracy. Once he actually got the power in Iran he took a good look around, decided he liked his new living arrangements, and installed himself as Dictator. Sending his minions out to murder every potential enemy in kangaroo religious courts. The current leaders of Iran were there too and I dont see them showing weakness like the Shah did. They will murder or jail anyone that opposes them and do so without mercy. This is, after all, the same bunch that sent children barefoot thru Iraqi minefields, or on motor scooters, to clear paths for the following infantry.

But this illusion of a Republic is useful to them and it serves their purposes if the idiot west thinks the average Iranian has some input in the policies of their Government. Its a useful illusion at home as well I think and it allows enough social steam to be let off without actually losing control. When you think about it "Religion" has always been one of the better control tools of Tyrants throughout the long march of history.

Either way the paragraph I quoted has no basis in reality. The "people of Iran" are not "finding their policy". They are being told what it is, and then they have no alternative then to accept it. They are living in a Theocratic Dictatorship that answers to no one but itself.

Bravo Rich.. allthough it is a dictatorship disguised as religious, since you only need to have a short look into the holy scripts of the muslim people to see this is a hypocratic circus, they don't even follow their own rules....

 

[webmaster]

Folks, let me remind you:

Please read the rules
http://www.defencetalk.com/forums/rules.php

Avoid calling leaders of other nations "terrorist" and "stupid" and other disrespectful remarks that take you AWAY from the discussions and doesn't help your argument. Those who are stepping out of the line, I don't think you would want people to call your leaders or leaders of your country as "stupid" and "terrorist", so keep the idea of mutual respect. Of course, we don't wan to pass any allegations unless we have solid proof that the applied label for certain leaders is appropriate.

If you really feel the urge to call leaders of other nations stupid and terrorist, etc. then I think you should get your ass of the internet and go over there and fight the terrorists and not wage jihad of hate, anger and frustration on webboards.

Thank you for understanding!

 

[swerve]

QUOTE=Ths;89467]
... plus do you want to hear who is said to have discovered America know? http://me.smartlog.dk/39744_Columbus_opdagede_ikke_Amerika.html and about your Vikings in Vinland http://www.skeptica.dk/bibliotek/vinland/01.htm sorry guys it is entirely in danish, but claims that a muslim chinese discovered american and drew a map of it before columbus sat foot on american soil, the other link describes something about the Vikings and the claim that the americas were under danish rule before columbus arrived, I must point out though that these are not scientifical studies but contribution from individuals it is funny though
pøj pøj

The "Zheng He discovered America in 1421" story is a fiction on the same lines as "Chariots of the Gods". It's a mixture of a few facts, assorted past scams, distortions & pure invention. The whole thing was made up in order that the author of it (British, to our shame) could get rich selling books.

Ths was joking about the Americas being under Danish rule, but technically, at a pinch, there might have been a legal claim by the standards of the day.

BTW, Columbus first set foot on the American mainland on 14 August 1502, in what is now Honduras, on his fourth voyage. Before that, he'd only landed in the Bahamas & various Caribbean islands. John Cabot (Giovanni Caboto), another Italian, sailing from Bristol, landed on the North American coast in the summer of 1497. So Columbus certainly wasn't the discoverer of North America.

There were voyages of exploration west from Bristol in the 1480s, but we don't know what, if anything, they found. Perhaps the Grand Banks & their cod. It's also possible that Joäo Corte Real found Newfoundland & the cod fishery about 1470. Some suggest that the Portuguese were discouraging to Columbus because they wanted to keep the Grand Banks secret.

 

[Scorpius]

this thread seems to be going way off-topic.

 

[Grand Danois]

Alright. It is time to close this thread. Everyone has had their say, and most posts now tend to be off topic or on the edge of being non-compliant with the forum rules.

Closed.