who can kill a modern Main Battle Tank (MBT)?

[Soner1980]

tanks need infantry support in urban combat look at what happened during the battle for berlin when the russians lost 1,990 tanks and armored vehicles,if i was in an urban combat area i would not want to be anywere near a tank

I know about is. The WWII tank battles were ofthen of tank in front and moving slowly to battle position with infantry on it's back. You have posted few seconds earlier a message.

But I had an idea to demolish tracks with a thick jacket putting it on the rear roller to break the track? Is this possible? Many has good idea's like Dominatrix closing or something like that... lol

 

[Moroz.ru]

http://www.rbs.ru/Exhibition/UralExpoArms/2000/bmpt.htm
BMPT
Tank support combat vehicle

Producer: State-owned Enterprise
"Machine Building Plant "Uralvagonzavod"

The BMPT's hull is the same as that of the T-72 battle tank. It is provided with explosive reactive armor (ERA) on the frontal armor plate, ERA-applied
screens to protect side plates, as well as grilled shields to protect the hull rear. The welded turret is provided with a filler and built-in ERA.

The distinguishing feature of the BMPT combat vehicle is its low-profile turret mounted on a tank chassis. The turret is equipped with up-to-date weapons for defeating antiarmor-capable targets and enabling tanks to advance, leaving close
antiarmor-capable targets for the BMPT to take care of. The BMPT crew consists of five men.

The BMPT armament can effectively defeat both lightly armored ground and aerial targets and heavily armored tank-type ground targets.

Its main armament consists of the 30mm 2A42 automatic gun and coaxially-mounted AG-30 or AGS-17A grenade launcher stabilized in two planes, and the Kornet ATGM system (800 mm RHA)* provided with a semiautomatic jamproof laser-guided system.

The BMPT is additionally armed with two AG-30 grenade launchers or two 7.62mm PKTM machine guns with an electromechanical drive and a day/night sight combined with the Agat-MR optronic sight. The additional weapons are arranged on fenders.

The turret-mounted 7.62mm machine gun provided with an electromechanical drive and the PNK sight serves as an auxiliary weapon. The BMPT has a built-in dozer equipment for digging in. The vehicle can be equipped with the KMT-8 treadway mine plow and the EMT electromagnetic device.

A diesel-electric set rated at 5 kW is installed in an armored compartment on the right fender.

Modernization of the T-72-type battle tanks into the BMPT combat vehicle can change tactics of combat actions and significantly increase fighting efficiency of tank units.

amunition - 900 shells for 30mm guns, 2000 bullets for 7.62, 600 grenades for two automatic grenade launchers

* BMPT can kill an M1A2 Abrams

 

[Moroz.ru]

By the way, Garry from worldaffairsboard.com has done good job, let me share with you Garry's googling results:

"I made some search on BMPT weapons and combat loads...... it looks quite impressive

The two 2A42 30 mm guns are the same as BMP-2.... should deliver strong fire power of 1kg shells.
http://www.shipunov.com/eng/str/cannons/2a42.htm
There should be two 450 shell belts feeding both. One belt is loaded with Armor Piercing Discarding Sabot and one with HE. The total weight of this would be 900kg for 900 shells. Very interesting the market price of this load is just $6750!
http://www.pmulcahy.com/ammunition/...ammunition.html

I guess that 7.62 machine gun is Kalashnikov.... the load is 2000 bullets

In addition to that 4 Ataka-T ATGMs
http://www.deagel.com/pandora/ataka_mn00163001.aspx
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/row/at-9.htm

two AG-17 grenade launchers - good area covering weapon.
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/LAND-...rmy/AGS-17.html
http://www.rusarm.ru/p_prod/army/ags17.htm

The load is 600 grenades - a belt of 300 in each launcher with VOG-17 of VOG-30 rounds
http://www.arcus-bg.com/products/fu..._m_l/print.html

All this looks quite impressive to suppress any infantry and protect tanks from RPG fighters in urban warfare. Two 30mm guns and two separate launchers would put infantry away from tanks!"

 

[Soner1980]

This is a very innovative design. Never heard of it and now it seems that the war industry must make changes in combat. All for urban warfare. 10 years ago, we were happy if a cannon yould pennatrate modern armor. Now it is important that the AFV is able to destroy tanks, engage infantry, engage air units, give the infantry weapons support and ofcouse to set up a cup of coffee The latter is a joke gentlemen.

Again, The Russians are building old T-55 tanks to a BTRT. This is also a good idea to protect soldiers from roadside bomb and RPG-7 from the enemie terrorists. This all was begun with the 220mm TOS Rocket system, later the Russians have push forward with new weapon systems. I will wait when a other type of vehicle will be unveiled.

 

[extern]

A bit more pictures of BMPT

 

[Big-E]

How can this kill an M1-A2? I thought the Kornets' laser designator was easily scrambled by the Abrahms upgrades. Can this penetrate its depleted uranium armor?

 

[Waylander]

Which system of the M1A2SEP is able to scramble laser designators? There is no such system on it.

 

[Soner1980]

Depleted Uranium is not good for a shaped charge. Uranium melt on about 900 degrees celcius and is only good against APFSDS or KE rounds.

The Kornet would maybe not smash through the turret front armor but it would penetrate from its sides or mabe from the hull front. At least it would damage electronics after it's blast because of the shock wave. But the Abrams can also destroy that vehicle. :

 

[Big-E]

Which system of the M1A2SEP is able to scramble laser designators? There is no such system on it.

Well thats stupid, my car has better ECM than the tank, that sucks!

 

[Soner1980]

ok, than you can ride with your car on the battlefield... that's a joke really I'm happy today and saying weird things to people.

But the Abrams is also not good protected for EW. When Turkey has achieved it's request for proposal of the M1A2SEP, only the French Leclerc and the Leopard2A6 stand up against the electronic warfare system. The rest of the tanks were 'lost' and unable to command. Strange, but maybe it is all solved and the later SEP models are protected against it.

Don't forget something, it is not only the active protection systems or the ECM. The Abrams is good armored and is able to withstand impacts from ATGM.

 

[Waylander]

With a penetration ability of min. 900mm RHA (Maybe more, some source talk about 1000-1200mm for the Kornet E) I would not bet my life on the frontal armor ability to withstand it.

 

[Big-E]

With a penetration ability of min. 900mm RHA (Maybe more, some source talk about 1000-1200mm for the Kornet E) I would not bet my life on the frontal armor ability to withstand it.

Well I was looking at the armor protection of the M1A1 and it says the turret can withstand 1,320mm-1,620mm against Chemical Energy RHAe. If I'm not mistaken the ATGMs are considered chemical energy. The Kornet is designed to engage light armored vehicles, not heavy MBTs. I don't believe it has the kenetic energy to punch through the heavy parts of the tank. Upon further review of testing of the Kornet I noticed that during trials out of 10 shots fired at a stationary T-80U (at range of 600m) only 4 hit the target. Of those 4 only two penetrated and achieved 850mm as rated as a Chemical Energy hit.

 

[idreamof2morrow]

such a long thread. did we already talk about the Javelin AntiTank Missle Launcher? i dont think the test has been finished but its a cool weapon to take into fact.

 

[Bfn42]

I wonder if the abrams...own X-rod ammunition can penetrate another m1

 

[Moroz.ru]

ok, than you can ride with your car on the battlefield...

nfloorl:
Good joke!

A BMPT has open architecture, so a Kornet could be replaced by an Igla (antiaircraft missile) ore by Khrizantema 1200mm RHA missiles upon combat demands.
But a BMPT was designed to terminate antitank troops and helicopters. Main Kornet’s purpose is destruction of concrete fire points.

 

[Big-E]

ok, than you can ride with your car on the battlefield...

If my car ever ends up on in a hot zone with ATGMs tageted I hope they can't hit a 200mph taget. LOL B/c thats how fast I'd be going!!!

 

[Moroz.ru]

If my car ever ends up on in a hot zone with ATGMs tageted I hope they can't hit a 200mph taget. LOL B/c thats how fast I'd be going!!!

If you find battle field covered by tarmac, you could become Speedy-fighter.

In Russia there is military version of Paris-Dakar rally raid winner track. It’s called KAMAZ 4911. It could raid up to 165 kmph.
http://expo.cps-rt.ru/eng/page-1569.htm

 

[ODYSSEUS]

what about a Kornet? i think it can defenetely kill a M1A1 Abrams

 

[extern]

what about a Kornet? i think it can defenetely kill a M1A1 Abrams

The Kornet missile is pretty close to Hellfire, thus why it cant penetrate Abrams' frontal armor??? Surelly yes! there are a lot of pictures from Iraq with Abrams' mistakenly killed by Hellfire.

From the oficial Rosoboronexport catalog:

The 9M133-1 missile with tandem shapedcharge
warhead is lethal to all in-service and
future tanks as well as fortifications and field
installations.
The 9M133F-1 missile with HE warhead features
destructive capability comparable to that
of a 155mm HE-fragmentation round and is
effective against formidable fortifications, light
armoured vehicles and other point targets.
Firing two ATGM types improves the Kornet-
E’s combat capability to defeat enemy armour
and suppress threat weapons.

Mission
The Kornet-E ATGM system is designed to
destroy armoured targets with ERA, fortifications
and weapons in firing positions.
Composition
• 9P163-1 launcher
• guided missiles in TLC
• 1PN79-1 thermal sight
• maintenance equipment and training aids
Features
The weapon features a semi-automatic
countermeasures-resistant laser beam guidance.

Basic specifications
Range of fire, m
day/night 100-5,500/-3,500
9M133-1 armour penetration, mm 1,000-1,200
ERA penetration provided
Missile calibre, mm 152
Weight, kg:
9M133-1 missile in TLC 29
launcher 26
thermal sight 11
Operating temperature range, oC = +-50
http://www.rusarm.ru/p_frame/main.htm

 

[Waylander]

The Problem with RHA is that there are no definite numbers. Most of what we know about modern armor is more speculation than facts. I may come close to one or the other side but there are not definitely right.
And if there are sources which say that an Abrams has an armor of 1300mm and a Kornet E is able to penetrate up to 1200mm I, as a reserve tanker, would not bet my life on these 100mm. Despite that, the front of an M1A2 doesn't only consists of the turret frontal armor.