Which institutions will react on alien invasion?

[Abraham Gubler]

Sad to admit America has virtually no contingency plans in place, we pilots aren't even briefed on what to do if we happen to see a UFO much less on what we should do next.

Probably because the last time the USG tried to do something about the possibility of UFOs it kicked off a storm of crazy conspiracy theories and weirdos claiming they had been anal probed and the like.

Carl Sagan spoke at length about intelligent life, and the possibility of ET visits. While he firmly believed intelligent life exists elsewhere, he also believed none would come here on purpose. His reason was simply that we are in such a dim little corner of the known universe it is the least likely place anyone would want to visit, for any reason.

That’s what they said about New Zealand and it was colonised twice!

The thing about intelligent life is that while no doubt abundant in the universe it is dwarfed by the fact that said universe is really, really big. Even with our radio transmissions barrelling outwards at the speed of light they have only covered 0.000002% of our own Milky Way Galaxy. It’s going to take another 100,000 years for these radio waves to get to the other side of the galaxy.

 

[Beatmaster]

Probably because the last time the USG tried to do something about the possibility of UFOs it kicked off a storm of crazy conspiracy theories and weirdos claiming they had been anal probed and the like.



That’s what they said about New Zealand and it was colonised twice!

The thing about intelligent life is that while no doubt abundant in the universe it is dwarfed by the fact that said universe is really, really big. Even with our radio transmissions barrelling outwards at the speed of light they have only covered 0.000002% of our own Milky Way Galaxy. It’s going to take another 100,000 years for these radio waves to get to the other side of the galaxy.

You do realize that those: 0.000002% is a really really really big distance and that the possibility does exsist that those radio waves might not be detectable due to the radio waves created by planets, moons stars and so on?
My point here is that even with all our technology there is a remote option that ET might be just around the corner (in perspective viewed)
I am not going to fuel the idea that those ufo sightings are real or proven but fact is that all around the world there are sightings and some are pretty darn credible like the belgium situation a couple of years ago.

So for all we know our radio signals might have passed ET long ago, and we did not even know.
As history proofs most of the greatest discoveries where right under our very face.
So if there is a ET out there or at least intelligent life that it might be just around the corner.
That being said personally i believe that the idea of "we are alone" is arrogant and ignorant at best for the simple reason we just do not know.
What we do know tho is that things happening beyond our control, so radio waves or not we might to review our ways of searching in order to find whats right under our face.
And for all we know our technological skills might be to lowtech for ET to detect and they might be to high tech for us to detect...just trowing a idea.
Humankind is capable of searching what? 0.00000000000000001% of the universe or so? so where does that leave the other gazillion % of the universe? and yes i am talking in close proximity....
Even today they are finding stars and such that are litterally a stone trow away.
They have been looking at it for 30 years and none even did consider: damn a new star how could we miss that.
So to me even if ET would slam us with a giant stick we would not notice...

 

[Abraham Gubler]

You do realize that those: 0.000002% is a really really really big distance and that the possibility does exsist that those radio waves might not be detectable due to the radio waves created by planets, moons stars and so on?

Do you honestly think someone who is capable of quantifying the volume of our galaxy and the rate of advance of the first radio waves would not be aware of these things? However for the sake of brevity one cannot mention every related factoid in a simple paragraph. And such is the space provided for every nit-picking wanker on the internet to have their day.

My point here is that even with all our technology there is a remote option that ET might be just around the corner (in perspective viewed)

It is extremely unlikely that within a 100 ly radius of earth there is anyone with a radio telescope that would not have detected our transmissions. There just isn’t the kind of natural obstruction to radio messaging within this small corner of the galaxy and line of sight blockages are transient at best because of the constant movement of the various stars and planets. Of course if they had a radio telescope 100 ly away and picked up our initial radio transmissions it would take another 100 years for their return call to arrive.

 

[Beatmaster]

Do you honestly think someone who is capable of quantifying the volume of our galaxy and the rate of advance of the first radio waves would not be aware of these things? However for the sake of brevity one cannot mention every related factoid in a simple paragraph. And such is the space provided for every nit-picking wanker on the internet to have their day.



It is extremely unlikely that within a 100 ly radius of earth there is anyone with a radio telescope that would not have detected our transmissions. There just isn’t the kind of natural obstruction to radio messaging within this small corner of the galaxy and line of sight blockages are transient at best because of the constant movement of the various stars and planets. Of course if they had a radio telescope 100 ly away and picked up our initial radio transmissions it would take another 100 years for their return call to arrive.

Nit picking wanker? Thats an interesting choice of words, or a lack of it.

That being said i am sure you are aware of the fact that planets, stars, moons, comets and such have their own radio waves right? As some space missions pointed out that sometimes connection between earth and the space shuttle is completly lost for some time.
Now as a example to clarify it to you.
When a radio signal goes into space then it will travel for ages and ages, however radio waves emitted from other sources can destroy or corrupt the initial radio signal sended by earth.
Now on a few million km this might be not a problem, but at LY's it might be a huge problem.

So hence why i said that our signal might not be detectable anymore even if ET wants to.
Look at it this way, when you got a 27mc broadcaster and you send a signal but someone is close to you with a much more powerfull broadcaster you can litterally "tune" the lesser sound away.
Now i could imagin that a exploding star or a other serious source in space could crank out a million times more signal strenght then we could with our radio signals.
As radio fragments can be corrupted and do not stay the same specially over astronomical distances where they are subject to interference by other more powerfull sources and eventually evaporate amongst other sounds and signals.
Next time nit-pick your words more carefully buddy as i expected from a person like you with your status here in this forum a bit more respect and brains.

Anyway no hard feelings carry on and i hope we are cool.

Cheers

 

[Bonza]

Fellas, the only reason this thing is still open is that the mods enjoy a good laugh as much as anyone. No need to have a go at one another over something as silly as alien invasions.

 

[2007yellow430]

They estimate that our Galaxy has approximately 8 billion planets of earth size in the habitable zone of their star. They also estimate the closes one is about 70 light years away. That makes the odds of one being life bearing with intelligent life quite high.

Study: 8.8 billion Earth-size, just-right planets

This thread may be more than just a fantasy, since our radio transmissions are only about 100 years old. LOL

Art

 

[ngatimozart]

I first came across the Drake equation when I did my first year at university.

The equation is usually written:
N = R* • fp • ne • fl • fi • fc • L

Where,

N = The number of civilizations in The Milky Way Galaxy whose electromagnetic emissions are detectable.

R* =The rate of formation of stars suitable for the development of intelligent life.

fp = The fraction of those stars with planetary systems.

ne = The number of planets, per solar system, with an environment suitable for life.

fl = The fraction of suitable planets on which life actually appears.

fi = The fraction of life bearing planets on which intelligent life emerges.

fc = The fraction of civilizations that develop a technology that releases detectable signs of their existence into space.

L = The length of time such civilizations release detectable signals into space.

Drake Equation | SETI Institute
Drake equation - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Roughly worked out for every 1 million stars there could be 1 sentient civilisation that is of the same technological level or greater than ours. Another point is that according to Einstein nothing can exceed the speed of light (c). It has to do with mass increasing the closer you reach c and the more energy required to achieve and sustain that velocity until the energy required is more than can be sustained because the mass is infinite. That's the theory. Ok Einsteins theory of relativity and special theory of relativity are just theories. Maybe they are right but they could also be flawed. So whilst FTL is not possible now it maybe in the future. We already know of particles that travel FTL. However they do not travel below FTL so c is a barrier at the moment, much like Mach 1 was perceived as until 1947.

 

[Rimasta]

The particle accelerator on the French-Swiss border had particles travel faster than the speed of light. It's not done yet, but they were talking about how they might be able to disprove the theory of relativity. And there are stellar phenomenon that travel much much faster than the speed of light, like a gamma ray burst or a pulsar.

 

[RobWilliams]

IIRC that was disproved (by something like 5 different teams working on it) over a year ago & the scientist heading up the experiment resigned.

How it worked was neutrinos were 'released' at CERN and detected in Italy with something like a 60 nanosecond discrepancy, a repeat experiment demonstrated that Einsteins work is still in tact. The delay being caused by a loose fibre optic cable which caused the incredibly minor delay.

The actual particles being fired around CERN are *close* to the speed of light, but not equal too.

Basically, saying Einstein was wrong makes headlines. Saying the scientists had an error and it's all square doesn't.

 

[StobieWan]

There are proposed methods of FTL that don't violate general relativity - the Alcubierre drive for instance - wrap space around you, woosh..just needs a few tons of anti matter is all.

 

[StobieWan]

On a related note:

BBC News - One in five suns has habitable world

Just how many habitable planets might there be in the galaxy? Quite a few potentially..

Thing is, being in the right temp zone isn't everything - you need a large and massive moon to strip most of the atmosphere away to avoid a green house effect, have a big enough magnetic field to ward off radiation etc.

To be honest, having being born of all that then survived the journey, you'd think we could all just get along....

 

[2007yellow430]

There are proposed methods of FTL that don't violate general relativity - the Alcubierre drive for instance - wrap space around you, woosh..just needs a few tons of anti matter is all.

Can you provide a link for an explanation of how that drive would work? Hanks,
Art

 

[Just Some Guy]

tachyons, by definition, move faster than light.

everything is affected by gravity. even light.
thus, over long distances, light would be slowed by gravity. (hence one theory about the blue shift Doppler effect. that the Universe ISN'T expanding. just that light is slowed via gravity)

using this information, it is theoretically possible to travel faster than light as a Tachyon and then utilize strong gravitational forces to slow down rapidly at the far end.
however, the longer it takes to accelerate/decelerate mean the longer you spend in sub-light speeds. thus the longer you need to spend in FTL speed just to have an average FTL travel speed. therefore the actual FTL travel would be more economic the longer the distance you go. it may be more practical to travel to a far away galaxy than it is to travel to a nearby star.

 

[cdxbow]

Can you provide a link for an explanation of how that drive would work? Hanks,
Art

Att. is a PDF of the original paper by Miguel Alcubierre. Other than being purely theoretical, it requires huge amounts of 'exotic matter', which the physicists don't even know if it exists or can even exist in our universe. Subsequent studies have suggested that the energy requirements can be reduced to something less than a planets worth of exotic matter. I'll go and check the kitchen cupboard to see if I've got any......

NASA has done some very preliminary experiments (White–Juday warp-field interferometer) which have been equivocal. I'm not expecting a warp drive in my lifetime, nor should any of the younger members.

And with respect to tachyons, they too are only theoretical, and rather hard to detect given they can only be faster then light.

 

[StobieWan]

Can you provide a link for an explanation of how that drive would work? Hanks,
Art

Here's the pop-sci overview of FTL travel from NASA

NASA - Status of "Warp Drive"

The Alcubierre drive could (emphasis on *could*) theoretically work - technically and practically is a different set of issues.

 

[2007yellow430]

Att. is a PDF of the original paper by Miguel Alcubierre. Other than being purely theoretical, it requires huge amounts of 'exotic matter', which the physicists don't even know if it exists or can even exist in our universe. Subsequent studies have suggested that the energy requirements can be reduced to something less than a planets worth of exotic matter. I'll go and check the kitchen cupboard to see if I've got any......

NASA has done some very preliminary experiments (White–Juday warp-field interferometer) which have been equivocal. I'm not expecting a warp drive in my lifetime, nor should any of the younger members.

And with respect to tachyons, they too are only theoretical, and rather hard to detect given they can only be faster then light.

Here's the pop-sci overview of FTL travel from NASA

NASA - Status of "Warp Drive"

The Alcubierre drive could (emphasis on *could*) theoretically work - technically and practically is a different set of issues.

Thanks. Need to review my calculus course material though.

Art

 

[Just Some Guy]

I had forgot to mention that, as a wise man once said, all things are relative.

right now I am sitting at my computer. completely stationary.
yet my computer is on the ground, which is moving via tectonic movement.
those tectonic plates are on the earth, which is moving around the sun.
the sun is moving around the center of the galaxy.
the galaxy is moving in relation to other galaxies.

or to put it a different (and more funny) way:
if you throw your boot out the window of a moving train, in relation to you the boot is traveling in the opposite direction to the train.
but in relation to the guy you just hit with your boot, the boot and the train are traveling in the same direction.