When do u think PLAN will have an aircraft carrier?
- Thread starter armage
- Start date
i found a site talkng about chineses carrier
http://www.china-defense.com/naval/plan2050/plan2050-6.html
http://www.china-defense.com/naval/plan2050/plan2050-6.html
Are we talking about realtime issues here? That fleet doesn't exist anywhere except in a wargamers mind.armage said:
The Russians haven't run a fleet exercise since approx 1991. That in real terms makes their warfighting capability at a blue water level almost null and void. China OTOH has never run a blue water op, doesn't have the assets for a blue water op, has only just come out of being a brown and green water navy and has never conducted dissimilar fleet ops or massed co-operative fleet ops with any nation. I can't think of too many naval commanders who would consider that the basis for being capable.
China is a long way off from fielding a carrier. She still hasn't resolved bunkerage issues, has not yet defined force structure and doesn't have the mass to support blue water expeditions. She's had 3 carriers sitting in assessment and revetment for over 20 years (in one case). None of them can be used or are remotely useful.
If you look at the force structure and development of the PLAN, it becomes pretty apparent the direction and doctrinal objective its designed for - Carriers aren't big on the radar screen in that environment.
Chinas force structure is not geared towards expeditionary warfare, it's vessel mix is designed for strike and stand off. The Sovromenys are really the only vessels of capability significance. China is building twin hull cats (and I would be guessing that they were paying attention to what the Aussie Navy achieved with the Jervis Bay, and the follow on result of the USN buying further vessels for their own use)redsoulja said:
Carriers are not part of the PLAN doctrine development at this stage (not at a visible level anyway). The force structure does not indicate the creation of vessels suitable for sustained carrier support.
Yes, they are capable of protecting a carrier, but it gets back to the doctrine issue again.armage said:
If a CSF is used for expeditionary warfare, then it needs to have an AWD and an ASW component. The PLAN does have lousy ASW technology. It's not in a realistic position to take on a committed SSKN or SSK. They have been desperate to get French ASW tech, but that will not happen. They will not get it through Pakistan, as France has not released it to Pakistan either. In the scheme of things, French ASW tech probably is in the top top 5, but is way down the ladder compared to no: 1 and 2. The UK is considered to have the best ASW tech at the moment.
In addition, an expeditionary CSF needs to have roaming SSK's that can keep up with the fleet at flank speed. China only has one vessel capable of doing that and its underwater noise signature is pretty horrific. The Kilos and Songs are not fleet support capable. In a real sense they are littorals, as such they are useless for concurrent fleet support.
I have no idea what Indias current strike force config is.
errr. China currently uses Russian ASW gear. The Russians haven't developed a new ASW suite since 1991. Meanwhile subs have gone through generational changes. (3 to date in the last 12 years)armage said:The Russian are the "black" market of the world, China could easily buy ASW ships (like what the Indians did).
another words, ASW technology that hasn't been concurrently developed with sub UDT programmes concurrently isn't going to have much success.
You're apparently oblivious of the fact. Tell you what. I'm off to the UDT Conference on Tuesday, whatever is unclassified about Chinas subs I'll tell you about when I come back.
In a nutshell though, both Taiwan and Japan have superior ASW assets and warfighting capability. China still has not travelled much beyond a green water navy even though she has new 52's and 53's sitting in the water.
I dont think PLAN needs any ASW from pakistan which isnt likely to get it in any case. Theyd rather do something with their Z-9s (Dauphins). Its french, it has ASW versions and thus it has potential. The only problem is gettin it better hardware than the french. The israelis maybe. I mean if they can get patriot tech from them then they can get ASW equpiment as well. Rmmbr how the israelis are upgrading Indian navy helis for ASW?gf0012-aust said:
But then again if the US can stop a phalcon deal it can stop an ASW package as well because this concerns US forces in the area. All they can do is hope that the EU embargoe is lifted soon or the russians give em sumthing good.
About the indian task force configuration, rmmbr tht book the 1984 indo pak war? in it the vikrant is assigned 2 escorting convoys and has 3 frigates of the IN to escort it with 2 frigates of the soviet navy 2 supplement them. Ofcourse This was for escorting merchant. A battle group would have what? 5 Kashins and 3 Krivaks built around an aircraft carrier? ( i dont think the indians would trust their aircraft carriers protection 2 an indingenously produced ship)
doggychow14
New Member
Have the Chinese finished or are they still building the 093s? I heard there going to get eight of them in the coming years. I dunno i could be wrong.
These are the current figures I have for 093 production:doggychow14 said:
2004 - 1
2005 - 1
2006 - 2
2007 - 2
2008 - 3
2009 - 3
2010 - 4
None have been assigned to fleets post production
doggychow14
New Member
are there any solid information on the specs or picutres of the 093? most of the stuff i found on the interent are just speculation
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #35
Pictures and Spec I don't know, but rumor has it the new SSN and is already at sea trials.
Remember this though the world didn't know about the Yuan until it was literally on a dock.
http://www.stormpages.com/jetfight/han_xia_kilo_song.htm
Remember this though the world didn't know about the Yuan until it was literally on a dock.
http://www.stormpages.com/jetfight/han_xia_kilo_song.htm
lalith prasad
Banned Member
dear corsair indian naval warships are capable of handling any pakistani or chinese warships .pakistan doesnt have any warship as of now capable of handling the delhi class whereas china has the sovremenny class on which the delhi is based .india has 3 delhi class vessels(project 15class).and is currently constructing bangalore class vessels( 6 vessels required 7000+ tons).check out www.naval-technology.com for further information on the delhi class which will provide the main escort for any indian naval warship.even the americans were highly impressed by the capablities of this warship.banglore class incorporates stealth technology.of all the 3 delhi class vessels the last one the ins mysore is the most advanced(incorporating stealthier design features compared two the other two).by the way guys iam not trying to hijack this thread just trying to reply to corsair.
doggychow14
New Member
well China does have the knew 052s and 054s which IMHO can be a serious threat to the DELHI. however, pakistan currently does not have these ships in her inventory. which brings up it to 2 sovs. (2 more on the way) 2 052B 2 052C 2 054. which brings the total 8 and an unknown 051C.
Basing a ship on another design does not automatically make that vessel equal or superior to the original ship. In terms of the Delhi vs. the Sovremenny the latter one still has the signifciant advantage of fielding a far more dangerous surface strike weapon.
You are making an assumption here without validating it. Why do you think the 052 & 054 are a serious thread to the Delhi?
You ARE aware of the fact that the 054 FFG is intended to be a low cost ship for fleet operations, fitted with quite old weapons and fire control system. Wether that ship is any thread for a Delhi DDG, is higly debatable IMO. The 052 on the other hand are surely good ships for chinese standards (I am referring to the 052B here, since the C-variant is intended for fleet air defense, as you may know). However their strike capability relies on indigineously developed YJ-83 CM. Wether that weapon is superior to the SS-N 25, is questionable too. Granted, it is supposed to have better speed and range, but in terms of guidance and ECM-capabilites...well.
051C? That designation is new to me. Can you give some more information on that or is it just a typo? There is a 051 (Luda), 051B (Luhai) and 051G (Luda III) however.
The "air defense ship" is a euphemism for aircraft carrier. are you thinking of "air warfare destroyer"?armage said: