Whats the Next Gen Tank?

[lobbie111]

Currently everyone is throwing blows to each other about the Leopard 2, Abrams or the challenger 2 (Not so often) But whats after them, I mean after all they are all over 15 years old and some were designed from 50's technology still!

Whats next for the tank, I have no doubt it will get lighter, more heavily armed and protected and smaller but what else and what projects are in motion as we speak?

 

[eckherl]

Currently everyone is throwing blows to each other about the Leopard 2, Abrams or the challenger 2 (Not so often) But whats after them, I mean after all they are all over 15 years old and some were designed from 50's technology still!

Whats next for the tank, I have no doubt it will get lighter, more heavily armed and protected and smaller but what else and what projects are in motion as we speak?

You pretty much have stated what everyone is researching, you could look at ETC type weapons which the U.S is making a priority in the research department, the armor protection question is a real challenge for everyone regardless on what some people may think, trying to get at a protection level that wil defeat KE type penetrators requires good armor thickness/materials thus giving you the vehicle weight challenges.

 

[nero]

black-eagle

You pretty much have stated what everyone is researching, you could look at ETC type weapons which the U.S is making a priority in the research department, the armor protection question is a real challenge for everyone regardless on what some people may think, trying to get at a protection level that wil defeat KE type penetrators requires good armor thickness/materials thus giving you the vehicle weight challenges.

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nobody seems to talk about the BLACK-EAGLE project of russia !!

sources tell me that the black-eagle will have a power/weight: 33hp/ton

also in the blogs of abovetopsecret.com i have read that the black-eagle will use a 150-mm smoothbore gun , is it true ??

please update if possible.



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[XaNDeR]

Yea but Russia is probably leaving Black Eagle project they seem to be more interested in T-95 which they say is even better than the Black Eagle

 

[eckherl]

.

nobody seems to talk about the BLACK-EAGLE project of russia !!

sources tell me that the black-eagle will have a power/weight: 33hp/ton

also in the blogs of abovetopsecret.com i have read that the black-eagle will use a 150-mm smoothbore gun , is it true ??

please update if possible.




.

They tried to sell it to the South Koreans who as you know went to the XK2.
Sources I have talked to have stated that it can come equiped with either a 125mm or a 135mm. I cannot see them going to a 150mm route due to the size of the round thus placing less ammunition on board thier vehicles.
Russia doesn`t seem interested at the present time to introduce the Black eagle into their inventory, could be a issue of going to fixed cartridges over two part ammunition (cost). They also seem content with sticking to the T-90 until they roll out the T-95.

Both Russia and China are conducting tests with bigger gun calibers, the U.S has been down this road with mixed results.

 

[eckherl]

Yea but Russia is probably leaving Black Eagle project they seem to be more interested in T-95 which they say is even better than the Black Eagle

The turret configuration on the Black Eagle will not support that size of a gun caliber, even though they have lenghtened the hull.

 

[Marsh]

I would have thought that, with active protection systems and electric armour under development, it might be more important to increase the accuracy, muzzle velocity, rate of fire and 'intelligence' of the rounds (ie making them steerable) than to simply increase the calibre.

This strikes me as more important against other tanks, and for MOUT the current crop of 120 and 125 mm have enough power to destroy buildings and strong points

 

[Waylander]

Active protection systems might decrease the capabilities of KEs but in the end an ADS is not going to safe you if you just use light armor like for example on a Piranha chassis.
Even when not hitting the target with the right angle or with a broken nose, due to ADS effects, a KE is going to rip through light armor.

One just have to look at the FCS project of the US.
It is getting heavier and heavier due to problems of inplementing the protection, firepower, electronics and mobility wanted by the Army.
I doubt that new AFVs are going to reach the weight of todays modern western MBTs but they are for sure not getting that light.

 

[Marsh]

That's currently true, but I was thinking that the next generation of APS coupled with improved 'traditional' armour and the kind of electric armour under development suggests that it might be more important to overwhelm the whole defensive system by having several rounds in the air at once approaching from different directions.

It was a thought, I'm not claiming that this is the future of direct fire weapons

 

[Waylander]

Ah, sorry I misunderstood you.
Your idea sounds reasonable. The problem I see with overhelming the enemy defense is that AT ammunition needs to have a certain weight and size in order to defeat even todays traditional heavy armor (maybe + heavy ERA).

So if you want to get more rounds into the air to defeat enemy active and passive defensive systems you might get a problem with the delivery vehicle.
The normal way of getting enough rounds for a saturation attack would be to decrease the size of the individual round.
But then the round might not be powerfull enough to defeat the traditional armor behind the new future protection layers.

My bet would be the rail gun. Breaking the active and passive defense with sheer power and speed.

 

[eckherl]

Rail guns and other ETC weapons along with multiple counter measure devices that everyone is working on sound good in theory and it is possible to design such devices, getting them to function properly in a combat environment is a totally different story. I think we still have a long period of time before this level of techology has been perfected to a point to where it can be used in combat.

 

[Waylander]

I agree. I also don't see such big tech jumps in the near future.

 

[beleg]

Ok some humor time,

Future tanks will be able to fly;

And they will be able to screw their opponents with their fire power..

 

[Marsh]

2nd gen APS and improvements in passive and reactive armour will ocurr before electric armour, which in turn is likely to be fielded significantly before practical rail guns.

The timelines are likely to depend as much on political will and budgets as on the technological porblems involved.

 

[Jezza]

How about main battle tank whose turret and chassis were enclosed in a Ram covering shaped to reduce the RCS, while cold air was pumped between the covering and the hull in order to minimise the vehicle’s IR signature.
Design innovations also incorporate advanced thermal and erosion management technologies to ensure extended barrel life and to minimize infrared signature.
A shape unique to armored vehicles, proprietary materials in the hull and turret, special paint, and almost completely covered tracks and suspension.

 

[Manfred2]

Lets see if I can't take a real leap here, one bound to cause some controversy (yeah, here I go again, can't resist :unknown )

Multi-turreted tanks failed because of the increase in surface area resulted in thinnner armor or too much weight... or both, However, massive slabs of armor may become a thing of the past if active counter measures can be made as effective for vehicles as they have for warships.

If this happens, things will change as radically for tanks as they did for warships in 1940-1990. "Tanks" may become light enough for the long-imagined Hovertank to appear. They could have mini-turrets at each corner for counter-measures. Lighter cannon or quick-loading missle launchers can replace current heavy cannon. A second large turret with a semi-automatic mortar could give Tanks inderect fire capability for the first time.

I don't expect to see any of this in my lifetime, but the current generation of front-line tanks have been in service longer than any previous crop. It seems as if the true "tank" has been perfected, within economic limits. The next generation might be such bastardized oddities (such as the one above) that historians will deny that they are true Armored Fighting Vehicles. Perhaps the machines we are familiar with will be the last word in Panzers?

 

[Manfred2]

oops, double posted.

I had to re-register since the old registration was blocked, for some reason. For a minute, it seemed as if this one would not work either.

This is even more frustrating than Faxing my 'defence profesional' credentials to Webmaster several times, and getting no result. Oh well, back to being a private...

It might be me, but it seems as if the Web is getting more restrictive every day. The frontier is gone- here come the fence-builders!

 

[Jon K]

Currently everyone is throwing blows to each other about the Leopard 2, Abrams or the challenger 2 (Not so often) But whats after them, I mean after all they are all over 15 years old and some were designed from 50's technology still!

Whats next for the tank, I have no doubt it will get lighter, more heavily armed and protected and smaller but what else and what projects are in motion as we speak?

I think, along with many other posters, that the traditional tank may have been already perfected. What comes next depends on tasks tanks will be required to do. Interestingly, traditional tank has made somekind of comeback with Operation Enduring Freedom and Operation Iraqi Freedom, as their survivability and all-weather capability has been valued.

Personally I would replace traditional tanks with swarms of small robotic carriers of kinetic energy missiles (a la LOSAT or CKEM style). Without crew these vehicles could be made small enough that a heavy level of protection could be afforded. Without crew these vehicles could be also risked.

 

[Totoro]

And what would create that cold air being pumped around the hull? To cool some air, one sadly needs to heat more air than it's cooled (at a different location). But, since we're talking about a mobile unit, like a tank, it would be impossible to just create more cool air than hot air.

 

[KGB]

Hovertanks...

There was an old movie that featured one. Big, and mean looking, it handled swampy ground with ease. It looked great, until it fired it's main gun and the recoil knocked it backwards (and overturned it it think). Lots of laughs!