Salesmen have been using the "like selling ice to eskimo,s, or, sand to arabs" or years, now its "like selling guns to Americans!"
Ways and means to prevent a future mass active shooter incident in the US
- Thread starter Todjaeger
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Here is the real bottom line.
In America, the desire for MILITARY weapons is expressly to defeat a corrupt national government from taking over the country. Those in Europe will laugh at this silly, old world notion. Those in Egypt, Libya, and elswhere may not.
In the 1860's the United States endured a genuine Civil War. America's last election was extremely polarized and was divided virtually 50%.
Those Aussies and Europeans do not fully understand or appreciate the depth and breadth of allegiance to the 2nd Amendment that still exists in this nation, at least for nearly 50%. Consider: the deaths of several thousands of American soldiers has not stopped America going to war.
Why would the deaths, over the last 100 years, of less than 1000 people... yes, less than 1000 people from gun-armed crazies, shift the national focus?
Oh yes, many more people have died from gunshots. But they were killed by polie or private citizens killing assailants.
Check the FBI stats on killings by criminals. McVay's bomb actually killed more children then were killed in Conncecticut. Yes, check the numbers.
Not justifying, just saying. American's have a different mind set than Europeans.
That's why we are free of the Brits and the rest. We fought for it. Ta.
In America, the desire for MILITARY weapons is expressly to defeat a corrupt national government from taking over the country. Those in Europe will laugh at this silly, old world notion. Those in Egypt, Libya, and elswhere may not.
In the 1860's the United States endured a genuine Civil War. America's last election was extremely polarized and was divided virtually 50%.
Those Aussies and Europeans do not fully understand or appreciate the depth and breadth of allegiance to the 2nd Amendment that still exists in this nation, at least for nearly 50%. Consider: the deaths of several thousands of American soldiers has not stopped America going to war.
Why would the deaths, over the last 100 years, of less than 1000 people... yes, less than 1000 people from gun-armed crazies, shift the national focus?
Oh yes, many more people have died from gunshots. But they were killed by polie or private citizens killing assailants.
Check the FBI stats on killings by criminals. McVay's bomb actually killed more children then were killed in Conncecticut. Yes, check the numbers.
Not justifying, just saying. American's have a different mind set than Europeans.
That's why we are free of the Brits and the rest. We fought for it. Ta.
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Infowars.com
January 2, 2013
Women in Delhi are rushing to apply for gun licenses in the aftermath of the gang rape and murder of a 23-year-old medical student who died in hospital last weekend, but most will be left defenseless as a result of India’s strict gun control laws.
The story again illustrates how draconian gun control policies only serve to disarm victims while emboldening criminals.
On December 16, a couple boarded a bus in the Munirka area of Delhi on their way to Dwarka in the south-west of the city. The woman, who remains unnamed, was subjected to a brutal gang rape that lasted almost an hour before she and her companion were beaten with iron bars then thrown out of the bus into the street. The woman died from her injuries at a Singapore hospital last weekend. Six men were arrested for the murder and could face the death penalty.
The incident generated massive public outcry against the treatment of women in India and a call for tougher anti-violence laws. Figures show that a woman is raped in Delhi every 14 hours and rape cases have doubled in India since 1998. Government efforts to step up police patrols have failed to reduce the rate of violent crime targeting women.
After the story prompted global condemnation, women across Delhi responded by flooding the city’s licensing department with calls demanding to know how they could obtain firearms for self-defense.
“We have received over 1,200 calls since that day. These include not only the average working woman, but even students who travel long distances to colleges and even their concerned parents. They were eager to find out more on the procedure to acquire arms,” a Delhi police officer told the Times of India.
There have already been 274 applications from women since the incident, but most will be left defenseless as a result of India’s draconian gun control laws. To be granted a gun permit in India, applicants have to prove that their life is in immediate danger.
Typically, less than 10 per cent of women who apply for a gun are granted a license, and the majority of these are under an inheritance clause which allows them to own a firearm if their husband or father had a permit. In 2010 and 2011, over 600 applications for firearms in Delhi were rejected. The licensing system is also discriminatory against women, forcing parents to hand over weapons to their daughters as the only way to ensure self-defense.
When hundreds of concerned women turned up in person at the Delhi licensing office, they were told that the threat of rape and violent crime “could not be reason enough” for them to obtain a firearm, and officials were ordered by their superiors to hand the women a letter assuring them that “their daughters were indeed safe on Delhi’s roads.” How a letter would be any use against a violent rapist was not explained.
Almost all of the women who apply for a gun in the interests of self-defense following the gang rape will see their applications rejected and will continue to be at the mercy of sexual predators with no means of protection, once again re-affirming the fact that gun control laws create more victims while aiding violent criminals who are free to target the innocent knowing they will face little or no resistance
January 2, 2013
Women in Delhi are rushing to apply for gun licenses in the aftermath of the gang rape and murder of a 23-year-old medical student who died in hospital last weekend, but most will be left defenseless as a result of India’s strict gun control laws.
The story again illustrates how draconian gun control policies only serve to disarm victims while emboldening criminals.
On December 16, a couple boarded a bus in the Munirka area of Delhi on their way to Dwarka in the south-west of the city. The woman, who remains unnamed, was subjected to a brutal gang rape that lasted almost an hour before she and her companion were beaten with iron bars then thrown out of the bus into the street. The woman died from her injuries at a Singapore hospital last weekend. Six men were arrested for the murder and could face the death penalty.
The incident generated massive public outcry against the treatment of women in India and a call for tougher anti-violence laws. Figures show that a woman is raped in Delhi every 14 hours and rape cases have doubled in India since 1998. Government efforts to step up police patrols have failed to reduce the rate of violent crime targeting women.
After the story prompted global condemnation, women across Delhi responded by flooding the city’s licensing department with calls demanding to know how they could obtain firearms for self-defense.
“We have received over 1,200 calls since that day. These include not only the average working woman, but even students who travel long distances to colleges and even their concerned parents. They were eager to find out more on the procedure to acquire arms,” a Delhi police officer told the Times of India.
There have already been 274 applications from women since the incident, but most will be left defenseless as a result of India’s draconian gun control laws. To be granted a gun permit in India, applicants have to prove that their life is in immediate danger.
Typically, less than 10 per cent of women who apply for a gun are granted a license, and the majority of these are under an inheritance clause which allows them to own a firearm if their husband or father had a permit. In 2010 and 2011, over 600 applications for firearms in Delhi were rejected. The licensing system is also discriminatory against women, forcing parents to hand over weapons to their daughters as the only way to ensure self-defense.
When hundreds of concerned women turned up in person at the Delhi licensing office, they were told that the threat of rape and violent crime “could not be reason enough” for them to obtain a firearm, and officials were ordered by their superiors to hand the women a letter assuring them that “their daughters were indeed safe on Delhi’s roads.” How a letter would be any use against a violent rapist was not explained.
Almost all of the women who apply for a gun in the interests of self-defense following the gang rape will see their applications rejected and will continue to be at the mercy of sexual predators with no means of protection, once again re-affirming the fact that gun control laws create more victims while aiding violent criminals who are free to target the innocent knowing they will face little or no resistance
John Newman
The Bunker Group
Quiller,
Your comments proves exactly the point that I made, Americans have a certain “mind set” that won't change no matter how many of your own people are slaughtered by your own. Americans just can't and won't see the "trees for the forest".
So you believe that Americans desire Military weapons so they can defeat "Corrupt National Governments", is that what you believe? Guess what? The American War of Independence ended in 1783, the Civil War ended in 1865, it's 2013 for God’s sake!
So when do you expect the US Government, corrupt or otherwise, to take over the country?? Fair dinkum! Are you for real?
If you want to compare the US attitude for the need to maintain military weapons with that of Egypt, Libya, etc, regarding corrupt National Governments, you’re welcome to that thought, as strange as it seems to me.
Excuse me, but Europe has been through far more wars and civil wars that the Americans can ever dream of, starting long before Europeans discovered America too.
As for us Australians, no we haven't had a civil war, but guess what? We have been involved in every major war since the beginning of the 20th Century, and before too.
You say deaths of US soldiers hasn't stopped Americans Going to war, well us Aussies have spilt a lot of blood for others, and defending ourselves, see below:
1301.0 - Year Book Australia, 1988
http://www.awm.gov.au/encyclopedia/war_casualties/
Over 100,000 Aussies have died in wars, well over 200,000 have been wounded and young Australians continue to die and be wounded to this day in Afghanistan too.
My family has been in Australia since the 1830's, they have been involved in the Boer War, WWI and WWII, fighting in South Africa, Gallipoli, the Western Front in France, New Guinea, and here in Australia too, defending against the Japanese.
You don't have to be an American with the history that you have used to be ready to go and fight wars!!
As for me here in Australia now in 2013, do I feel the need to arm myself to the teeth for "home defence" and be ready to overthrow "corrupt" governments too? Well, no I don't!
Doesn't make me any less passionate about my Country as you do for your Country.
Look, getting back to the point of this forum, America is trying to come up with answers to stop the slaughter of its people by its own, those here who are Americans don't want to listen to the suggestions of us "non Americans", Ok fair enough.
As I said earlier, there is only one solution, and that is there is NO solution, because Americans are not prepared to change their thinking, it's in their DNA, the massacres will continue.
Quiller my friend, that is the Bottom line!
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Todjaeger
Potstirrer
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #105
Actually, it seems more like the ones who cannot see the forest because of all the trees are some of the non-US members who keep making what amount to minor variations of the same suggestion, without paying due regard to what can be accomplished either legally or practically in the US.
The question was never, "would what the UK did regarding guns work in the US?" or the similar, "Would what Australia did after Port Arthur work in the US?".
The question was, and remains, "what can be done in the US to prevent a future mass shooting?"
As demonstrated earlier within this thread, it has become quite apparent that many outside the US have little understanding of US legal and political systems, or the fact that there are cultural differences within the US.
The closest analogy I have to what many have attempted within this, would be for the EU to attempt to formulate uniform, EU-wide firearms laws which would replace the relevant national laws of EU member-states. Could such a thing eventually come to pass? Sure it could. Is it the sort of thing which one should plan on happening soon enough to actually prevent a mass shooting in the next decade or so? Somehow I think not.
As for American members not being particularly interested in listening... For suggestions which ignore some fairly basic tenets of how things are done in the US, yeah, most Americans are going to ignore them since they are not useful. Not unlike when the acrophobic man asking for directions to drive from Sydney to Perth keeps getting told to fly there instead, and he still opts to drive instead.
One of the other things which I find so striking about the responses given, it that so little has been about identifying what triggered past incidents, or what could be done to screen people to locate potentially unstable persons prior to an incident.
Lastly, I flat out reject that there is only one solution, or one way to approach this sort of potential problem.
Announcement: What was desired by the OP was a discussion on a range of ideas and suggestions which could then be examined and implemented in the US context. However, that has not happened in 7 pages of discussion.
After some discussion, the Mod Team has decided that we going to close this thread, as it is going in circles.
After some discussion, the Mod Team has decided that we going to close this thread, as it is going in circles.
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