Way of using old tanks
- Thread starter evripide
- Start date
In the hands of a well trained tank crew with a decent sabot round I would give it a go with a TYPE 85 M-11 while entering the engagement arena with the likes of a M-60A3, during daylight hours of course.
To our bad luck no.If we have some here in Germany I would expect that in the US there are dozens of them.
OSHA would be all over the U.S government if someone was hurt, besides getting smoked like a cheap cigar in a court of law. Their may be some private owners that may offer this, which ones I do not know.The ones I mean are also purely private. They run them commercially and one hour of driving usually costs between 100€ and 150€ (damn oil prices...).
Sometimes they offer tank rides during open days at military barracks and if one has a driving license they may even let him drive the baby but usually the spectators are only allowed to stand in the hatches.
If one wants to own a tank like vehicle in Germany he has to modify it a little bit.
All weapons need to be unusable and one part of the armor (roughly 1m²) at the drivers location has to be replaced by a thin plate of metal.
The police wants to be able to stop an amok driver without needing to call for a MILAN-Team.
But it is defenitely fun to smell th diesel again.
BTW, what is OSHA?
Sometimes they offer tank rides during open days at military barracks and if one has a driving license they may even let him drive the baby but usually the spectators are only allowed to stand in the hatches.
If one wants to own a tank like vehicle in Germany he has to modify it a little bit.
All weapons need to be unusable and one part of the armor (roughly 1m²) at the drivers location has to be replaced by a thin plate of metal.
The police wants to be able to stop an amok driver without needing to call for a MILAN-Team.
But it is defenitely fun to smell th diesel again.
BTW, what is OSHA?
Granted and accepted.In the hands of a well trained tank crew with a decent sabot round I would give it a go with a TYPE 85 M-11 while entering the engagement arena with the likes of a M-60A3, during daylight hours of course.
The Type 85 M-11 against Egyptian M1 Abrahms?
I don't know Waylander, you tell me.
And whilst your at it, give me another exact example whilst your casting that judgement.
OOPs sorry WaylanderThe ones I mean are also purely private. They run them commercially and one hour of driving usually costs between 100€ and 150€ (damn oil prices...).
Sometimes they offer tank rides during open days at military barracks and if one has a driving license they may even let him drive the baby but usually the spectators are only allowed to stand in the hatches.
If one wants to own a tank like vehicle in Germany he has to modify it a little bit.
All weapons need to be unusable and one part of the armor (roughly 1m²) at the drivers location has to be replaced by a thin plate of metal.
The police wants to be able to stop an amok driver without needing to call for a MILAN-Team.
But it is defenitely fun to smell th diesel again.
BTW, what is OSHA?
Occupational Safety and Health Agency, it is a federal agency that ensures that companies and agencies including branches of military service are providing a safe work environment for their employee`s.
Hey OSHA checks US Armed forces too? Thats tough one! I am not suggesting that Armed forces should operate in unsafe manner, but one OSHA adverse comment can potentially trigger 100 lawsuits. (who doesn't want be an instant millionaire)
Does OSHA gets involved in training accidents, say from a broken thumb to Crashed B-2?
No - they do not get involved in handling training incidents, and U.S military safety engineers are trained to OSHA standards. Where they could actually get involved in a military installation incident or handle a compliance issue would be if a civilian contractor working on that installation had any issues or concerns.
Germany has the Berufsgenossenschaften (BG) setup for the same purpose btw.
Wonder which BG would be responsible in this case though - could be the BGF, although technically they only do road-/water-/air-bound transport.
Bundeswehr soldiers aren't part of the BG concept either btw. Exception is the Merchant Marine, for which the relevant BG has a secondary role similar to a Wehrersatzbehörde (basically, in this case an office that manages and distributes wartime reserve personnel).
Wonder which BG would be responsible in this case though - could be the BGF, although technically they only do road-/water-/air-bound transport.
Bundeswehr soldiers aren't part of the BG concept either btw. Exception is the Merchant Marine, for which the relevant BG has a secondary role similar to a Wehrersatzbehörde (basically, in this case an office that manages and distributes wartime reserve personnel).
@Izzy
Why the double post?
And I remember you asking the same questions about some otehr tanks T-90s, etc. as well as your rant about the Leclerc.
I expect I am not the only one who has the feeling that your style of posting often enough lacks portions of friendliness and respect.
But I don't want to drag this interesting threat away from topic so this is going to be the last post of me regarding this problem.
Let's just agree to disagree in that point.
Why the double post?
And I remember you asking the same questions about some otehr tanks T-90s, etc. as well as your rant about the Leclerc.
I expect I am not the only one who has the feeling that your style of posting often enough lacks portions of friendliness and respect.
But I don't want to drag this interesting threat away from topic so this is going to be the last post of me regarding this problem.
Let's just agree to disagree in that point.
Getting back to thread topic, what i think hasn't been used a lot more recently is conversion. I.e. particularly for artillery carriers, engineering vehicles, recovery vehicles etc.
About the only more recent artillery version of a tank i can think of would be the T5/T6 turrets offered by South Africa (on a T-72 chassis), and a version of the Slovakian Zuzana stuff.
That used to be a worthwhile thing, in particular with light tanks (thinking of the various M41 chassis variants, or the AMX13 F3 155mm carrier).
Nowadays it seems the usual way is to directly produce modified chassis off the existing lines for these purposes, instead of reusing other base chassis with post-modification.
About the only more recent artillery version of a tank i can think of would be the T5/T6 turrets offered by South Africa (on a T-72 chassis), and a version of the Slovakian Zuzana stuff.
That used to be a worthwhile thing, in particular with light tanks (thinking of the various M41 chassis variants, or the AMX13 F3 155mm carrier).
Nowadays it seems the usual way is to directly produce modified chassis off the existing lines for these purposes, instead of reusing other base chassis with post-modification.
how about heavily armoured mobile observation posts?
When the swedes scrapped their S-tanks in the mid-90s i suggested that they replace the gun, magazines and auto-loader with and elevatable observationplattform with day/night-sight and Laser Rangefinder & tergeting device. Adding extra batteries inside and a overhead-mounted machinegun on top.
Especially since sweden at that time (and still today) lack proper recce vehicles.
When the swedes scrapped their S-tanks in the mid-90s i suggested that they replace the gun, magazines and auto-loader with and elevatable observationplattform with day/night-sight and Laser Rangefinder & tergeting device. Adding extra batteries inside and a overhead-mounted machinegun on top.
Especially since sweden at that time (and still today) lack proper recce vehicles.
Germany did that with the Kanonenjagdpanzer in fact ("Beobachtungspanzer", observation tank).
Well, except for the raisable platform, that wasn't en vogue back in the 80s.
90mm gun removed, some armour added. TZG-90 added (artillery targeting system, with laser rangefinder). Used with artillery and mortar forward observers for fire direction.
There were some experiments for the same purpose with a Leopard 1A5 btw, but that project was stopped for lack of money.
Well, except for the raisable platform, that wasn't en vogue back in the 80s.
90mm gun removed, some armour added. TZG-90 added (artillery targeting system, with laser rangefinder). Used with artillery and mortar forward observers for fire direction.
There were some experiments for the same purpose with a Leopard 1A5 btw, but that project was stopped for lack of money.
I still like the stationary turrets, Germany used panther turrets in WW2 for that purpose to great effect, the allies had trouble because they couldn't find them until they fired. I think it would work well in ROK because I highly dougbt DPRK has the capabilities to find them, until they fire, plus the targets that DPRK would be offering up are pretty badly armoured. I also don't think that DPRK would indiscrimintly bombard everything due to their lack of modern C4i, there advancing troops would probably take more fire then any ROK turrets.
Kosovo=Serbia
Banned Member
I like very much the way Serbian army use old t 55s, Especially I like
this one :
VIU-55 Munja (en: Lightning) is a combat engineering vehicle produced by Serbia. The vehicle is based on the Soviet-built T-54/T-55 tank, and its production began in 2004 when 210 outdated T-55 tanks were converted.
Specifications are :
Weight 32 tonnes
Length 6.20 m
Width 3.27 m
Height 2.05 m
Crew 2 + 6 passengers
Armor T-55 armour
Primary armament 3×7.62mm M-84 machine gun, 30mm M-93 grenade launcher
Engine diesel 427 kW
Suspension torsion bar
Operational range 320-545 km
Speed 50 km/h
And I also like how they modernizing t 72s
this one :
VIU-55 Munja (en: Lightning) is a combat engineering vehicle produced by Serbia. The vehicle is based on the Soviet-built T-54/T-55 tank, and its production began in 2004 when 210 outdated T-55 tanks were converted.
Specifications are :
Weight 32 tonnes
Length 6.20 m
Width 3.27 m
Height 2.05 m
Crew 2 + 6 passengers
Armor T-55 armour
Primary armament 3×7.62mm M-84 machine gun, 30mm M-93 grenade launcher
Engine diesel 427 kW
Suspension torsion bar
Operational range 320-545 km
Speed 50 km/h
And I also like how they modernizing t 72s
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