OK, I understand now. Just wondering if the graphic was accurate then how much time would it likely take to overfly the territory depicted?
War Against ISIS
- Thread starter spikehades
- Start date
the underlying graphic is the base layer - all the overlays have been turned off and/or sanitised which means that its impossible to cross reference it with voice recordings and any other assets that were in theatre at the time
They've basically released a 2d map with no metrics and no useful overlays.
considering the nature of the region, that map should be full of dots and triangles, tracks, ID tags etc....
it adds no context to whats happened
the russians were in the spur for approx 17seconds
Not even a scale so can't work out any distances either. Nice, not. Well there is a way just involves a GIS and a bit of work but even then it would only be a guide because you don't know how the image has been manipulated and that affects the scale.
I can understand some of their concern and why they've switched off some layers - but basically everything has been turned off.
you can filter out all your own and friendly assets etc... but the way its presented its next to useless.
they've turned off obvious things like fly through views, 3D elements (topo) time tracking against the track object of interest etc....
you can't even overlay an external GIS package without some difficulty.....
obviously someone at a senior level has had conniptions about releasing the original TMS artifact
not the most impartial site but -
'17 Seconds': No One’s Buying Turkey’s Version of Su-24 Story
i have to agree the numbers Turkey gives dont quite add up, the Su-24 would of been flying near stall speed to be in turkish airspace for 17 seconds.
'17 Seconds': No One’s Buying Turkey’s Version of Su-24 Story
i have to agree the numbers Turkey gives dont quite add up, the Su-24 would of been flying near stall speed to be in turkish airspace for 17 seconds.
which is why the rest of the TMS data is needed
stall speed for an SU-24 is approx 230kph
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Update.
The Russian picture of the shootdown. The border in the area is disputed, and under Assad it was never clearly demarcated so it's possible that the discrepancy is the product of these irregularities. Russia is ceasing military contacts with Turkey.
«Гуманитарные зоны безопаÑноÑти» на Ñевере Сирии - nortwolf_sam
The Russian ambassador in France has stated that the second pilot has been rescued by Syrian special forces. Anna News also concurs.
Судьба второго летчика Су-24 - Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½
Пока только Ñлухи - Берлога Бронемедведа
The Moskva is moving closer to shore, to use it's S-300 for airspace control over Syria, to shoot down any threats to Russian aircraft.
Флот поможет - Берлога Бронемедведа
Details on the rescue, 3 Mi-8AMTSh helos were sent. All three took ground fire. One had a single KIA on board and turned around (he was wounded at first). The second was forced to land, the crew and soldiers on board took cover in a building near by, were attacked by rebels but were saved by friendly forces, and a Russian Mi-24 conducted strikes in the area. The helo was subsequently destroyed by a TOW missile. The third one turned around after taking fire.
The second link has a couple of videos.
Ð¢ÑƒÑ€Ñ†Ð¸Ñ Ñбила роÑÑийÑкий Ñамолет в Сирии. Один Ð¿Ð¸Ð»Ð¾Ñ Ð’Ð¸Ð´ÐµÐ¾, фото, карта, новоÑти онлайн #Су24 #Ð¡Ð¸Ñ€Ð¸Ñ #Ð¢ÑƒÑ€Ñ†Ð¸Ñ #РоÑÑÐ¸Ñ #Война | NEWS-MAIL.BY
Репортаж ANNA про бой Ñ Ð³Ñ€ÑƒÐ¿Ð¿Ð¾Ð¹ ПСС ВВС РоÑÑии в Сирии - Берлога Бронемедведа
The Russian picture of the shootdown. The border in the area is disputed, and under Assad it was never clearly demarcated so it's possible that the discrepancy is the product of these irregularities. Russia is ceasing military contacts with Turkey.
«Гуманитарные зоны безопаÑноÑти» на Ñевере Сирии - nortwolf_sam
The Russian ambassador in France has stated that the second pilot has been rescued by Syrian special forces. Anna News also concurs.
Судьба второго летчика Су-24 - Ð”ÐµÐ½Ð¸Ñ ÐœÐ¾ÐºÑ€ÑƒÑˆÐ¸Ð½
Пока только Ñлухи - Берлога Бронемедведа
The Moskva is moving closer to shore, to use it's S-300 for airspace control over Syria, to shoot down any threats to Russian aircraft.
Флот поможет - Берлога Бронемедведа
Details on the rescue, 3 Mi-8AMTSh helos were sent. All three took ground fire. One had a single KIA on board and turned around (he was wounded at first). The second was forced to land, the crew and soldiers on board took cover in a building near by, were attacked by rebels but were saved by friendly forces, and a Russian Mi-24 conducted strikes in the area. The helo was subsequently destroyed by a TOW missile. The third one turned around after taking fire.
The second link has a couple of videos.
Ð¢ÑƒÑ€Ñ†Ð¸Ñ Ñбила роÑÑийÑкий Ñамолет в Сирии. Один Ð¿Ð¸Ð»Ð¾Ñ Ð’Ð¸Ð´ÐµÐ¾, фото, карта, новоÑти онлайн #Су24 #Ð¡Ð¸Ñ€Ð¸Ñ #Ð¢ÑƒÑ€Ñ†Ð¸Ñ #РоÑÑÐ¸Ñ #Война | NEWS-MAIL.BY
Репортаж ANNA про бой Ñ Ð³Ñ€ÑƒÐ¿Ð¿Ð¾Ð¹ ПСС ВВС РоÑÑии в Сирии - Берлога Бронемедведа
there are a number of areas in dispute between Turkey and Syria - it should have been common knowledge in that sense - and its one of the reasons why ROE's and agreements get established so that confusion and incidents can be avoided
the absolute details behind this whole sorry exercise won't be public for decades, so all we can do is extrapolate without going off the logic rails.
It will be interesting to see how future airstrikes in that area are conducted. Russia is claiming that the Turkish F-16 violated Syrian air space as part of the shoot down. But what happens if it doesn't? If the next time it fires from the Turkish side. Will Russian assets return fire? Especially with something long range like the S-300. Or those Syrian Buks. Either way, I don't think confusion was the issue here.
well, you know my views on this already
Russia says they were bombing oil convoys on their way to Turkey, when they were shot down.
Ко вчерашнему... - Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата
The second pilot is officially safe and back at base.
ОфициалÑно... - Вахтенный журнал Ñтареющего пирата
Probably a better death, then if they had captured him alive. Consider the kinds of executions the rebels have staged. Throwing gay people off tall buildings is just the nice stuff. They've run over prisoners with tanks, chopped off heads, burned people alive, etc. The rules of civilization don't seem to apply to the behavior of these groups.
EDIT: Amazingly enough the rescue was handled by 18 Syrian special forces, and 6 Hezbollah fighters.
EDIT2: Both pilots have received awards, the deceased a Hero of Russia, the survivor, Order of Valor. The dead marine also received Order of Valor.
The dead pilot is Lt. Col. Peshkov, the surviving co-pilot is Capt. Murahtin. The marine is Sailor Pozynin.
http://kremlin.ru/events/president/news/50780
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Odd place for oil convoys. I can't see any practical route for a rebel convoy from any Syrian oilfield to that part of the border.
I wonder why the Russian forces aren't helping Assad take back the gas fields lost to IS. They supplied a very large proportion of the energy needs of the parts of Syria still under Assad's control.
the russians have released something a little more legit than the turks have.
Russian Defense Ministry Video Proves Su-24 Never Entered Turkish Airspace
but, it's not like the Russians have never falsified evidence to support their side before.
Russian Defense Ministry Video Proves Su-24 Never Entered Turkish Airspace
but, it's not like the Russians have never falsified evidence to support their side before.
SouthernSky
Member
If you want to dance around the borders of sovereign nations with armed mud movers don't get upset if things don't go your way.
The Russian will be installing a S-400 System which adds impetus for all parties in the air war to reach some sort of accommodation. Russian long-range SAMs can reach deep into Turkish airspace and areas where the Coalition operates. There's very lttle room for error as perceived provocations by any party can result in tragic consequences.
Turkish President Erdogan slams Russia's actions - CNN.com
Russia says it is deploying anti-aircraft missiles to Syria
stanbul (CNN)Tensions in the Middle East ratcheted up dangerously Wednesday, a day after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane, with the Turkish President accusing Russia of deceit and Russia announcing it would deploy anti-aircraft missiles to Syria.
Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu said, according to the ministry's Twitter feed, that the country would deploy S-400 defense missile systems to its Hmeymim airbase near Latakia, Syria, on the Mediterranean coast. The missiles have a range of 250 kilometers, according to the missilethreat.com website, or 155 miles. The Turkish border, at its closest, is less than 30 miles away.
More at the link.
Turkish President Erdogan slams Russia's actions - CNN.com
Russia says it is deploying anti-aircraft missiles to Syria
stanbul (CNN)Tensions in the Middle East ratcheted up dangerously Wednesday, a day after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane, with the Turkish President accusing Russia of deceit and Russia announcing it would deploy anti-aircraft missiles to Syria.
Russian Defense Minister Sergey Shoygu said, according to the ministry's Twitter feed, that the country would deploy S-400 defense missile systems to its Hmeymim airbase near Latakia, Syria, on the Mediterranean coast. The missiles have a range of 250 kilometers, according to the missilethreat.com website, or 155 miles. The Turkish border, at its closest, is less than 30 miles away.
More at the link.
It's a strange statement, made by a Russian diplomat in France. I wonder if he wasn't confused by Putin's rhetoric about ISIS oil going to Turkey.
Well it seems that Russia cares little for the Syrian oil fields, and instead has refocused Assad on taking down the non-ISIS rebels in major urban areas. The goal seems to be to establish positive control of the western half of Syria, the major cities, towns, and highways. Due to the nature of the various rebel groups, there is no continuous front line, and no single enemy. This is their strength but also their weakness, and the idea currently seems to be to clean them up area by area. Also the on-going battle for Aleppo is naturally at the focus of all of this. Losing Aleppo to ISIS would have been a huge blow.
Update.
The Turkish embassy in Moscow has been pelted with stones, and pickets continue.
ПоÑольÑтво Турции в МоÑкве закидали камнÑми – varlamov.ru
The decision has been made to deploy S-400s to Syria. Which means that earlier reports of their presence were likely untrue.
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Øîéãó ñîîáùèë î ñïàñåíèè øòóðìàíà ñáèòîãî Ñó-24 è î ïåðåáðîñêå â Ñèðèþ ÇÐÊ Ñ-400
Erdogan says he doesn't want this conflict to escalate, and that they didn't know they were shooting down a Russian jet. He claimed fragments of the jet fell on Turkish soil, injuring two people. This is on the heels of a conversation with Merkel who told him that the shootdown would make the situation worse, and asked him to de-escalate the situation.
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ýðäîãàí íå õî÷åò íàãíåòàòü êîíôëèêò èç-çà ñáèòîãî Ñó-24, êîòîðûé ÂÂÑ Òóðöèè íå ïðèçíàëè çà ðîññèéñêèé
Meanwhile it looks like some of the rebel fighters involved in killing the pilot are not Turkmen, but Turks from across the border. One of them is the son of a politican. The rebel group itself appears to contain some Turkish nationalists from Bozkurt.
Ðайти и уничтожить - Colonel Cassad
The Turkish embassy in Moscow has been pelted with stones, and pickets continue.
ПоÑольÑтво Турции в МоÑкве закидали камнÑми – varlamov.ru
The decision has been made to deploy S-400s to Syria. Which means that earlier reports of their presence were likely untrue.
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Øîéãó ñîîáùèë î ñïàñåíèè øòóðìàíà ñáèòîãî Ñó-24 è î ïåðåáðîñêå â Ñèðèþ ÇÐÊ Ñ-400
Erdogan says he doesn't want this conflict to escalate, and that they didn't know they were shooting down a Russian jet. He claimed fragments of the jet fell on Turkish soil, injuring two people. This is on the heels of a conversation with Merkel who told him that the shootdown would make the situation worse, and asked him to de-escalate the situation.
Íîâîñòè NEWSru.com :: Ýðäîãàí íå õî÷åò íàãíåòàòü êîíôëèêò èç-çà ñáèòîãî Ñó-24, êîòîðûé ÂÂÑ Òóðöèè íå ïðèçíàëè çà ðîññèéñêèé
Meanwhile it looks like some of the rebel fighters involved in killing the pilot are not Turkmen, but Turks from across the border. One of them is the son of a politican. The rebel group itself appears to contain some Turkish nationalists from Bozkurt.
Ðайти и уничтожить - Colonel Cassad