Venezuelan F16s

[wimpymouse]

Sir, another point would be against which neighbour would he be able to actively due something? Colombia, which probably has the most experienced army and air force in Latin America right now, due to its continuous drug-funded guerrilla? Or Brazil, which is about 10 times as big, and has a strong industrial base. That base would allow us, in my point of view, to give Chavez really serious problems to think about, even without any international involvement. He may also want to tackle France, since French Guayana is a department of France...
I can´t see any logical reason for his weapons purchase, especially idiotic things such as buying 100000 rifles, and manufacturing licenses for more, for a population aroung 20000000 people...
As far as I can see, which is about one hand from my nose in military related topics, most recent Venezuelan weapon systems acquisitions are hard to justify on a defense basis, and I just can´t see which country Venezuela could have reasonable expectations to need to attack...
Regards to all, and congratulations on the high level of the discussion.
Mario

As you've realized by your own math, VE isn't going to attack any neighbour. Not only would they find them selves in deep shit, but an essential bit here is lacking; motive.

The 100.000 AK-103's (?), and the additional to be built in VE, aren't for the army. Chavez is creating a type of 'neighborhood defence' and is training ordinary civilians to give an occupational force an irritation large enough for the US not wanting to invade. City Guerrillas.

I know it is off topic, but... I don´t think it would be fair to say Colombia is starting an arms race, with the kind of equipment they buy, and with the internal problems they face, due to their drug-financed terrorist groups.
As for Brazil, if you take values be themselves, it may be thought to be a big spender. If you relate them to economy or population, it would be clear that Brazil is among the countries with lowest spenditures on the military...
Another point is that I do not recall to see either the Brazilian or Colombian goverments with the habit of interfering with internal politics of the neighbours, while Chavez (and that is a whole different thing from Venezuela) does or tries to do that quite frequently, as can be seen by some episodes in the media.
Now getting back to topic, I would say that for now, with the external policy the Venezuelan government follows, it only has Russia as a credible military supplier, with China being a distant second choice. So, since from what I see in the news it would mean a Mig29 or SU30/35 variant, and as they already have some of the latter, that would be a no brainer.

Brazil isn't a threat to anybody, they have oilfields of their own to protect from BB Wolf, and Colombia will never act on their own. Although they will be a bridge in a future invasion and I'd be surprised if their army and AUC will just stand put during that.
As far as drug money, there isn't a drug exporting country in the world that isn't benefitting from it, even though indirectly. Check out what the Colombian attorney general is up to regarding Uribe.

About that media you're watching, if you stand a little bit closer you'll be able to smell their BS. :nutkick

 

[Feanor]

The 100.000 AK-103's (?), and the additional to be built in VE, aren't for the army. Chavez is creating a type of 'neighborhood defence' and is training ordinary civilians to give an occupational force an irritation large enough for the US not wanting to invade. City Guerrillas.

The AK's are indeed for their army. Their old Belgian rifles are being handed over to the neighborhood defense forces.

 

[wimpymouse]

The AK's are indeed for their army. Their old Belgian rifles are being handed over to the neighborhood defense forces.

OK, do you know if Chavez changed his mind on that, cus I remember it the other way round?

 

[Twister]

It's up to Venezuela to purchase any suitable military and defence asset and equipment, as long as not WMD.

The decision to purchase AK-103 was for the Venezuela Armed Forces because their FAL SLR already obselete. But the purchase itself also the bridge for Chavez government to tight their relationship with Russia, since they have some problem with their old friend US.

 

[Feanor]

OK, do you know if Chavez changed his mind on that, cus I remember it the other way round?

"I understand the FALs are to be diverted to the new civilian militias, in which case they will be extremely hard to keep track of," and might be quickly resold in the country or abroad, Gilmour said.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003070518_venezarms19.html

With this in mind, the Venezuelan government has purchased about 100,000 AK-103 and AK-104 assault rifles to replace the Belgian-designed FALs.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2006/060515-venezuela-weapons.htm

Not to mention it just makes sense to replace the ancient FALs with something more modern.

 

[wimpymouse]

It's up to Venezuela to purchase any suitable military and defence asset and equipment, as long as not WMD.

The decision to purchase AK-103 was for the Venezuela Armed Forces because their FAL SLR already obselete. But the purchase itself also the bridge for Chavez government to tight their relationship with Russia, since they have some problem with their old friend US.

Should be a given thing, but even rifles are considered an arms race..

Mos Def.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003070518_venezarms19.html



http://www.globalsecurity.org/org/news/2006/060515-venezuela-weapons.htm

Not to mention it just makes sense to replace the ancient FALs with something more modern.

Yep, you're right, I must have remembered it wrong.

 

[momo]

hello I just wanted to share some pictures

 

[Salty Dog]

hello I just wanted to share some pictures

Thank you for the photos momo. Question on the first photo with the personnel group. The photo looks to me like it was taken at a Brazilian Air Force base (probably during an exercise) as the shelters look very Brazilian and the aircraft on the far left looks like and A-1. Could you confirm where the photo was taken. Thanks.

 

[momo]

yes the first picture was taken in Brazil at the end of Cruzex this year at NATAL AF base

 

[momo]

thank you........these too were also taken at cruzex...however I don't know the names of the authors

 

[Twister]

Could anybody give some detail about Cruzex and how many of Venezuela combat aircraft participate, especially F-16?

 

[Salty Dog]

Here's a link to the official FAB/MoD website with descriptions, photos, schedule, etc. of CRUZEX IV held November 1-14, 2008. The material is in Portuguese, however, there are quite a few photos of the participants.

 

[Feanor]

For those of us who don't read Brazilian, could you tell us how many F-16's from Venezuela participated? It would indicate how many F-16's are operational.

 

[Salty Dog]

For those of us who don't read Brazilian, could you tell us how many F-16's from Venezuela participated? It would indicate how many F-16's are operational.

I found this (in English) on the website:

JORNAL EL UNIVERSAL - VENEZUELA


Venezuela engages in air exercises with Brazil and other countries


Western Hemisphere A group of Venezuelan aircrafts carried out on Monday morning some training flights which are part of the activities performed in Natal airbase, located in northern Brazil, during the Fourth Southern Cross (Cruzex IV) joint military exercises.

In a press release, the Venezuelan Air Force reported that its Dragon aircrafts achieved their first seven hours of flight, as expected, "showing that they are fully operational."

From Saturday, November 1 to Sunday, November 16, a delegation of 166 Venezuelan Air Force pilots; 6 F-16 aircrafts and two Hercules C-130, commanded by Brigadier General Alfonso Javier Ortiz; is in Brazil to participate in war games together with delegations from five other countries.

Col. Carlos Ramos Quilarque, commander of the Fighters Air Group 16, was the first to take off.

According to the communiqué, Venezuela complied with the flight plan assigned to their aircrafts in the joint exercises, which are carried out every two years in the region.

 

[Feanor]

So we've got at least 6 operational.

 

[momo]

this picture was taken two keeks ago + we usually keep more on the ground for stand by

 

[Salty Dog]

So we've got at least 6 operational.

At least we know the FAV F-16s were flyable as they made the trip to Brazil. It still does not mean they were fully without gripes or in full Code One condition.

 

[Feanor]

So two weeks ago they managed to get 10 in the air.

6 participated in war games. I.e. they were operational enough to risk taking them to another country (would be pretty embarrasing if one stopped working during the exercises) and using them more or less actively in an exercise. I bet both events were planned ahead of time, so this isn't indicative of readyness rates in an actual combat situation. But in terms of maintenance, it does tell us something. For one that they still work.

 

[Twister]

From my personal experience, the number of FAV F-16 which still active could be higher then 10 unit.

Normally, Air Forces would not allowed all of his asset especially when come to valueable asset to participated in any exercise or oversea operation. At least half squadron will be left to secure nation airspace.

 

[wimpymouse]

JORNAL EL UNIVERSAL - VENEZUELA

In a press release, the Venezuelan Air Force reported that its Dragon aircrafts achieved their first seven hours of flight, as expected, "showing that they are fully operational."

What aircraft is the Dragon?