Venezuela vs Netherlands
- Thread starter kinggodzilla87
- Start date
Support for the Netherlands would sure come from the U.S. Btw, the P-3C and F-16s out of Hato and Reina Beatrix should detect an "invasion fleet" quite soon. In case an attack is successful, the closest bases for doing harm to Venezuela are Muniz, Ramey and Howard (and Barksdale, of course), all of them at least 400nm away.[/QUOTE]
are you sure about the P3C in netherland service i thought they were sold and given to other NATO countries and the job was replaced by a private company flying Dash8[/QUOTE]
I was refering to U.S. Navy P-3C and ANG F-16, not Hollandish planes.
Edit: I'm not sure about what units these F-16s are from, I think they are often from Missouri or Illinois. Outfit down there is/was called the 429th EOS, in support of Operation Inca Gold (or what's it called these days). Any information would be welcome.
are you sure about the P3C in netherland service i thought they were sold and given to other NATO countries and the job was replaced by a private company flying Dash8[/QUOTE]
I was refering to U.S. Navy P-3C and ANG F-16, not Hollandish planes.
Edit: I'm not sure about what units these F-16s are from, I think they are often from Missouri or Illinois. Outfit down there is/was called the 429th EOS, in support of Operation Inca Gold (or what's it called these days). Any information would be welcome.
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What we have to remember is that within 5 years, Venezuela is going to be a lot more powerful than it currently is. It will have a fleet of 11 subs, this is a very large force for Venezuela's size. The Dutch only have 4 (?) Theya are also likely to have alot more fighters in their Air Force. Within 5 years, their military will be much more superior to the Dutch.
You think they would be able to get 11 new boats in 5 years, outfit them and sea trial them, build all the supporting facilities, and be able to train up competant crews? All this in 5 years? For a country that has very little experience in submarines??
There is absolutely nothing wrong with it. Starting from null point, it doesnt matter if you want to induct 5 or 105 submarines per 5 years. Money is the only question.
Sending 200 sailors or 2000 to learing facility - all the same. Order to build 1 submarine base or 5 bases - all the same. Money is the only question.
No their military won't be superior. Most of it is inferior equipment and they don't have the years of experience that the Dutch have.
How would they get enough forces and infrastructure up and running to occupy and defend these islands anyway? And the Dutch have the capabilities to deploy an amphibious assault on those islands.
If they have no carriers or LHDs capable of deploying CAS/VSTOL then they dont have an "amphibious assualt" capability to retake the Islands. Without air cover its a non-starter.
don't the Su and the f16 have the range with a combat load from Venezuela so an LHD/light carrier won't be compusery.
Venezuela seems to be building more of a sea denile navy rather than an invasion force.
I think he means that the Netherlands does not have the ability to retake the islands, because any (unaided) Dutch amphibious assault would lack air support.
If I understand him right, I can't argue with that. As long as Venezuela has a functioning anti-shipping strike capability, which means no more than F-16s or Su-30 (even their old CF-5 & Mirages, if there are any still flyable) with dumb bombs, and enough of them, or with good enough counter-measures, for at least one to be able to get through the Dutch AAW ships & blat an LPD, the Dutch are stuffed. Their other islands (St. Eustatius & St. Maarten) should be safe from a Venezuelan attack, & aren't claimed by Venezuela, but they're far enough away that I doubt the Dutch would be able to use them to provide any fighter cover for an amphibious assault. But they should be able to launch strikes on Venezuelan shipping, with support from their few tankers.
yes i understand i agree that its essential that if the island were taken there would have to be orgainic airpower to stand a chance of sucsses
even with APAR destroyers. also how often to dutch ships vist St. Eustatius & St. Maarten. is their any infomation of the fitting of tomhawk on the LCF [i rember reading that the dutch had bought 200 or so tomohawks]
I thought you were talking about the Dutch.
I heard we indeed wanted to buy tomahawks, according wiki we have 30
But surely Chavez wouldn't do such a silly thing as attacking those islands, Free use of those sealanes must be very important to Venuzuela, starting a war won't help that
cheers
Noline
exported_kiwi
New Member
Just been trolling through old threads and saw this one. Here's a scenario that's happened before; the RN, The French Navy, Spain, Italy or the US offers to "lease" one of their carriers to the Dutch navy....it could be one of the old but recently decommissioned CVs of the USN, and equip it with older aircraft, say F14Ds reactivated out of Davis Monthan AFB and crewed by USN "volunteers". It has happened in history, who's to say it wouldn't happen again? There you have it, much needed air cover for any retaliatory force from the Netherlands, not to mention ample old amphibs available ex USN.
2S1
Banned Member
Why does the Netherlands need a carrier?
Europe does not need another carrier - it needs a Government and People willing to fight. In Numbers.
Those CV's were worn out and when decommed were stripped of anything useful for the CVN's (especially catapults and arrestor gear). The F-14's are not flight worthy and are being cut up, the ones that are not being destroyed have all the usable parts removed so they are just shells.
exported_kiwi
New Member
Thanks, but it woulda been a sweetheart of an idea under the scenario posed by this thread.
Cheers!
Cheers!
The question of course is what the Venezuelans will buy next. As of right now they're pretty limited in terms of modern hardware. However they have made indications that they want to purchase 10 Il-76's and 2 Il-78's which would seriously boost airlift and the reach of their Flankers. If they opt for another batch of (negotiations are in process right now, and the two options seem to be Su-35BMs or Su-30MKVs) Su-30's then deliveries could start next year, and given that they already fly them, getting another 24 operational would not be hard. That would give them enough air superiority and maritime strike capabilities to dominate the area.
On the other hand they seriously lack in experience, and their surface fleet is fairly small. In the long run things could get very very unpleasant.
On the other hand they seriously lack in experience, and their surface fleet is fairly small. In the long run things could get very very unpleasant.
Beatmaster
New Member
So if i read this topic in a correct way its acctually saying that the dutch forces lack some very important assets to kick Chaves back to his own ground.
Because the dutch do not have enough airsupport and they lack some seriouse support of an aircraft carrier and sub support.
According to Defence Minister of defence Henk Kamp:
Chaves would not have enough forces to take the islands and defend them it will be all over in a few hours.
According to the online news paper Link:
If Chaves uses his armed forces to take "our Flaklands" then he will be sure meet the Dutch forces in battle.
There are numerous sites and news papers that claim that Chaves will not have enough power to make his wishes come true.
The sites Mindef.nl. Ad.nl and some other good sites also say that if Chaves uses a upgraded version of his army Within 10 years he will still not be able to carry out his personal dreams.
So i agree if some guys on this forum say that the dutch lack some very important assests like airsupport, subs and manpower to succesfully defend the Dutch islands.
On the otherhand the US and the Royal Navy of the uk leased some ships to the dutch navy just in case of an chaves attack.
So that would boost the striking force of the dutch to take out any chaves attack according to some news papers and other forums.
I simply do not have the ins and outs to form a good and solid response to this topic but i do maintain my vision that Chaves has the ability to take the islands because of his proximity that is a huge advantage.
But in the long run he will only find his own destruction.
The dutch army is known for his lacks of support and his cuts on there forces.
But they are also known to get the job done.
So in other words if chaves starts a war he will be succesfull for at least 36 hours after that he wil find him self in a very nasty situation because the dutch will deploy a fair force to send him back to his country.
The dutch will get some support from france and the us and that will make alot of things mutch more easy for the dutch, So i think that Chaves will not be that stupid to pull a stunt like this if he is not affraid of the dutch than at least he have to be worry'd about the france and the us forces because those 2 are way more powerfull than he ever could be so if the dutch fail the france and us forces will not.
But to complete my post i also did read on this forum that the russians will get and nucliare power contract with chaves to boost his country.
Also he trains his soldiers with the russians.
Iam not saying that chaves will have the same amount of help as the dutch do but to screw the us and nato i believe that the russians will play a part in a future war between chaves and the netherlands.
If iam wrong please correct me, because as i already said the info about this topic is everything but transparant.
So i have a few questions of my own:
Henk Kamp said chaves is not a real treath because the dutch forces a way more powerfull and superior.
Is this true or not? what will the dutch have at there disposal to beat chaves?
And chaves is buying SU Planes from russia some 48 pieces of them according to one of the topic's in this forum (need to find link but can't find it right now)
Anyway also other topic's are saying that chaves really is building up his forces.
So if chaves is going to pull this off what will be the end senario for him what can he use to get the job done?
And what will be the senario of the war itself?
Because if he pulls this off than he will not only find him self in a war situation but also in a political problem because i do believe that the major nato members and some other country's like the US will not accept this move and besides military actions they will aslo use political force and punishment to knock him down.
But again iam not an expert so if iam wrong correct me.
Anyway lets hope that it never has to come this far because there is already enough war:nutkick
Because the dutch do not have enough airsupport and they lack some seriouse support of an aircraft carrier and sub support.
According to Defence Minister of defence Henk Kamp:
Chaves would not have enough forces to take the islands and defend them it will be all over in a few hours.
According to the online news paper Link:
If Chaves uses his armed forces to take "our Flaklands" then he will be sure meet the Dutch forces in battle.
There are numerous sites and news papers that claim that Chaves will not have enough power to make his wishes come true.
The sites Mindef.nl. Ad.nl and some other good sites also say that if Chaves uses a upgraded version of his army Within 10 years he will still not be able to carry out his personal dreams.
So i agree if some guys on this forum say that the dutch lack some very important assests like airsupport, subs and manpower to succesfully defend the Dutch islands.
On the otherhand the US and the Royal Navy of the uk leased some ships to the dutch navy just in case of an chaves attack.
So that would boost the striking force of the dutch to take out any chaves attack according to some news papers and other forums.
I simply do not have the ins and outs to form a good and solid response to this topic but i do maintain my vision that Chaves has the ability to take the islands because of his proximity that is a huge advantage.
But in the long run he will only find his own destruction.
The dutch army is known for his lacks of support and his cuts on there forces.
But they are also known to get the job done.
So in other words if chaves starts a war he will be succesfull for at least 36 hours after that he wil find him self in a very nasty situation because the dutch will deploy a fair force to send him back to his country.
The dutch will get some support from france and the us and that will make alot of things mutch more easy for the dutch, So i think that Chaves will not be that stupid to pull a stunt like this if he is not affraid of the dutch than at least he have to be worry'd about the france and the us forces because those 2 are way more powerfull than he ever could be so if the dutch fail the france and us forces will not.
But to complete my post i also did read on this forum that the russians will get and nucliare power contract with chaves to boost his country.
Also he trains his soldiers with the russians.
Iam not saying that chaves will have the same amount of help as the dutch do but to screw the us and nato i believe that the russians will play a part in a future war between chaves and the netherlands.
If iam wrong please correct me, because as i already said the info about this topic is everything but transparant.
So i have a few questions of my own:
Henk Kamp said chaves is not a real treath because the dutch forces a way more powerfull and superior.
Is this true or not? what will the dutch have at there disposal to beat chaves?
And chaves is buying SU Planes from russia some 48 pieces of them according to one of the topic's in this forum (need to find link but can't find it right now)
Anyway also other topic's are saying that chaves really is building up his forces.
So if chaves is going to pull this off what will be the end senario for him what can he use to get the job done?
And what will be the senario of the war itself?
Because if he pulls this off than he will not only find him self in a war situation but also in a political problem because i do believe that the major nato members and some other country's like the US will not accept this move and besides military actions they will aslo use political force and punishment to knock him down.
But again iam not an expert so if iam wrong correct me.
Anyway lets hope that it never has to come this far because there is already enough war:nutkick