Venezuela Update

Ananda

The Bunker Group

More and more I have to see this Venezuela situation from business strategy. In sense this is like Hostile Take Over corporate action. First you strangle company cash flow, push the board on verge of desperate action, force the CEO out, then push the remaining board with outrageous demand to make deals with you.

Venezuela regime as company board now shown force in ground that they are still in control of the country populace (internal stake holders). This move to ensure internal cohesion and also to bargain with external potential investor, that further hostile take over will cost more and potentially damage the company potential further investment value.

Let's see how the bargain going to flow.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
What’s the likeliest outcome now? Does the vice president take over and it’s business as usual?
Looks like that’d be the course, at least for now.

Those who were expecting the “safe transition of power to the democratically elected government” and the “monitors of the situation” (while “determining the complex issue of legality of the American actions”) will be greatly disappointed. Not sure why they were expecting any different though. What’s funny is that this is how Euros justified the entire invasion and kidnapping in their “hot takes”.


The “bad takes day” still continues, people still talking about the regime change, Trump and Noble prize envy -> no soup for Machado and Co, epic oil reserves -> replacing Canadian oil expert to the US, etc.

Like I said the other day, regime change was not on the table because all of it was left intact, less Maduro. The Peace Prize has nothing to do with “depriving” Machado of her ambitions. It has everything to do with the exiting regime that will simply not budge. As John Fedup said a page or two ago, the Americans have learned. I would say may have learned at this point since it is still early and the situation is not entirely stable.

Trump and most of his administration do not care about democracy (some don’t even care about it in the US itself), but their interests. Moreover, dismantling a regime is quite an operation that involves way more strategic planning, resources, death, etc. Trump likes his quick in and outs and “total victories”. It looks like it was easier to buy/arrange the way in to get Maduro out and keep things in place as they were otherwise, while getting what you want (the latter still pending the results). Even this greatly successful op, in and out, apparently has support of only third of the Americans, according to the Ipsos poll. Even Republicans sit at 65% approval! Gotta to be some kind of a record on the lows. No rallying round the flag either.


Oil cuts into the Russian and Chinese business (probably the main goal behind the whole thing) but is certainly no threat to the Canadian exports in the short and medium runs. Even long run is quite debatable since investing tens or hundreds of billions of dollars over a decade plus period into a country that can nationalize the investment is not a sound strategy. Trump already stated that they would be reimbursing the companies for their investment - I do not see that happening, as the amounts are simply enormous. Furthermore, with oil prices where they are today and no forecasts indicating demand trending much higher, the increase of barrel production in Venezuela threatens the patch in the US itself. And so on. Long story short, it is likely all about the direction of exports. This, in turn, it is not necessarily bad for Russia (and Iran) since the Chinese will have to find the substitute for the oil now heading to the US (where it will be either resold or processed and sold for profit). So




The axis now also (or again) includes Cuba, for the axis-folks. What I would be watching out for is Trump advisors (and MAGA voices) including Denmark into this same axis:

Venezuela also colluded with the worst imperialist actors in the region and overseas—Cuba, China, Denmark, Russia—to spread chaos, corruption, and socialist misery. It contributed to a surge of illegal migrants to America—basically a hybrid invasion.

 

swerve

Super Moderator
... Furthermore, with oil prices where they are today and no forecasts indicating demand trending much higher, the increase of barrel production in Venezuela threatens the patch in the US itself.
A lot of US refineries were built to handle Venezuelan crude, which is very heavy, & it's not far away so transport is cheap, so it could benefit some US refiners - unless those refineries have been modified in recent years. I don't know.
 

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
A lot of US refineries were built to handle Venezuelan crude, which is very heavy, & it's not far away so transport is cheap, so it could benefit some US refiners - unless those refineries have been modified in recent years. I don't know.
Yep
1767784971271.png

What I would be watching out for is Trump advisors (and MAGA voices) including Denmark into this same axis:
This is a gross misinterpretation of US interests in Greenland and the North Atlantic in general, and the process ongoing between the US and Denmark.
Related, a Venezuela bound ship is now steaming off to Russia, chased by the US and apparently will soon receive a Russian escort.
Russia's efforts to recover the ship are indicative of its exceptional importance.
You can also see on this map the countries and territories relevant:
Greenland, Iceland, UK, Ireland, Norway.
1767785264335.png

It is not coincidence that Denmark has recently initiated a process to buy P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft.
 
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koxinga

Well-Known Member
Off topic: The GIUK gap, an old name that resonates with Cold War warriors and Harpoon gamers (Soviet nuke boats surging out from the Kola Peninsular). Is the SOUS line still active?
 

rsemmes

Active Member
No plan ever survives first contact with the enemy.

One traitor was instrumental in the kidnapping of Maduro? The stealth route of approach is going to be the same for every army, US attacked/jammed every single radar in Venezuela? Civilian air traffic too? Mobiles were working, every single operator was incompetent?
We have seen images of those "regime militias" around, the armed forces of Venezuela deployed not a single OP, neither AA guns nor MANPADS along possible routes; not even in Caracas, km away from the coast?
Did Maduro just "surrendered with a show" for a presidential pardon?

The Federal Legislative Palace and Miraflores, the presidential palace in Caracas were, obviously, military targets. Anyway, theguardian has a slightly different approach to the situation.
 

Terran

Well-Known Member
Yep
View attachment 54122


This is a gross misinterpretation of US interests in Greenland and the North Atlantic in general, and the process ongoing between the US and Denmark.
Related, a Venezuela bound ship is now steaming off to Russia, chased by the US and apparently will soon receive a Russian escort.
Russia's efforts to recover the ship are indicative of its exceptional importance.
You can also see on this map the countries and territories relevant:
Greenland, Iceland, UK, Ireland, Norway.
View attachment 54125

It is not coincidence that Denmark has recently initiated a process to buy P-8 Poseidon maritime patrol aircraft.
On that Marinara… err Marinera has been taken by US forces.
Along with it another Ship the Sophia was also taken.
The reported Russian Escort being dispatched was just… questionable. https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/ru...the-u-s-tried-to-seize-off-venezuela-4bd78dc7
It states a Submarine was dispatched. As a Surface ship escort for this kind of mission a Submarine is just silly. Other than torpedoing the Marinera what could it possibly be for?
It couldn’t engage US Forces would probably both start a war and be on the wrong end of a P8’s attention if it had.
It’s January in the North Atlantic so VBSS from a Submarine especially with a questionably trained Russian crew sounds like a truly amazing idiotic idea.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #268
On that Marinara… err Marinera has been taken by US forces.
Along with it another Ship the Sophia was also taken.
The reported Russian Escort being dispatched was just… questionable. https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/ru...the-u-s-tried-to-seize-off-venezuela-4bd78dc7
It states a Submarine was dispatched. As a Surface ship escort for this kind of mission a Submarine is just silly. Other than torpedoing the Marinera what could it possibly be for?
It couldn’t engage US Forces would probably both start a war and be on the wrong end of a P8’s attention if it had.
It’s January in the North Atlantic so VBSS from a Submarine especially with a questionably trained Russian crew sounds like a truly amazing idiotic idea.
It may be the case that the closest available asset was a submarine and it was that or nothing. Either way, whatever was sent didn't make it. And while Russia has some surface combatants, they certainly don't have the kind of fleet that could permanently escort tankers in and out of Venezuela. Unless Russia is ready to stage the second Cuban missile crisis, complete with nuclear IRBMs sent to Venezuela under the escort of basically every major warship Russia has (all armed with tactical nukes), there's no scenario where the VMF credibly prevents a US blockade of Venezuela and a shutdown of traffic in and out.
 

KipPotapych

Well-Known Member
A lot of US refineries were built to handle Venezuelan crude, which is very heavy, & it's not far away so transport is cheap, so it could benefit some US refiners - unless those refineries have been modified in recent years. I don't know.
Yes, absolutely. Though I wouldn’t say a lot, but there are refineries.

What I am saying is that an increase of oil supply by say 1-2% worldwide, what many have been suggesting this recent shenanigans will do, would drop the oil prices sufficiently to have major consequences on the American oil industry itself and shale in particular. While the refineries would do just fine (provided they can process the heavy sour), the oil patch, ie the extracting side of the business, will be in trouble, a significant loss of jobs, etc. They are likely not drilling any new wells as it is at the current prices; with lower prices, they will have to shut down the existing ones, starting with those with higher break-even costs and down the ladder from there. Some reasonable people have actually been suggesting that every Trump’s action so far that had a potential to affect the prices of oil was meant to make sure the prices do not drop beyond a certain ceiling (I would think of about $60-70 per barrel as this is about what the US shale needs to break even, legacy wells aside). I, personally, do not subscribe to this line of thinking, but it is not a farfetched proposal. Trump cannot lose these voters from the patch. Even if inflation keeps printing hot, the oil prices will stay up in that range at least, in my opinion, as it is not the core reason for inflation nowadays, not in the US or here, anyway.

However, any significant increase in production in VZ is simply impossible in short or medium term as significant investment is required. The current estimates vary greatly. The lowest I saw was over $100B ($110-130B, if I recall correctly), from Raystad. And they go as high as $700-$1,000B. Internal PDVSA documents had shown that upwards of $60B needed for the pipelines alone because the existing infrastructure has not been updated (and was hardly serviced, really) for the past several decades. It’s a lot of money. Provided a) the regime is here to stay, b) midterm elections in the US will likely lead to the reds losing both chambers of Congress, c) next presidency unclear, but not unlikely that would be lost too… no one serious is going to invest any significant amount of money into VZ today or in the next couple of years. And the oil guys are serious people.

Also, wait until someone legitimate, who has credibility, goes to Venezuela and does some exploration work to show that the current “proven” reserves in the country are simply bogus and do not exist: be it an actual nonexistence or economically unfeasible endeavour. That would be my bet.


Funny that, while the USA, self-pronounced, not stealing the VZ oil

IMG_3457.jpeg

Trump says that VZ will use its oil revenues to buy American products:


I wonder how the Euros’ contemplating regarding the legality of the American actions goes and dreams of peaceful democratic transition. It is all about the people of Venezuela after all, right? Laughing.


This is a gross misinterpretation of US interests in Greenland and the North Atlantic in general, and the process ongoing between the US and Denmark.
This is what Trump’s advisors and MAGA influencers are pushing. Almost everything they (or Trump himself) push is gross misinterpretation of one thing or another. But as long as trumpets believe that their neighbours of different colour and with an accent (or not) might (or will) eat their cat and dog, this is something to watch out for. That is my point.

No one rational person debates the obvious strategic significance of Greenland. But throwing some mud at Denmark, be it the “axis” and “drugs” or “they won’t come if we really need them” in potential preparation for what is to come is obviously something to watch out for. This is off topic though.
 

Big_Zucchini

Well-Known Member
On that Marinara… err Marinera has been taken by US forces.
Along with it another Ship the Sophia was also taken.
The reported Russian Escort being dispatched was just… questionable. https://www.wsj.com/world/russia/ru...the-u-s-tried-to-seize-off-venezuela-4bd78dc7
It states a Submarine was dispatched. As a Surface ship escort for this kind of mission a Submarine is just silly. Other than torpedoing the Marinera what could it possibly be for?
It couldn’t engage US Forces would probably both start a war and be on the wrong end of a P8’s attention if it had.
It’s January in the North Atlantic so VBSS from a Submarine especially with a questionably trained Russian crew sounds like a truly amazing idiotic idea.
What @Feanor said plus submarines usually can grab and accommodate a few extra personnel. No one would start shooting at a submarine unless it started firing first.

What I am saying is that an increase of oil supply by say 1-2% worldwide, what many have been suggesting this recent shenanigans will do, would drop the oil prices sufficiently to have major consequences on the American oil industry itself and shale in particular. While the refineries would do just fine (provided they can process the heavy sour), the oil patch, ie the extracting side of the business, will be in trouble, a significant loss of jobs, etc. They are likely not drilling any new wells as it is at the current prices; with lower prices, they will have to shut down the existing ones, starting with those with higher break-even costs and down the ladder from there. Some reasonable people have actually been suggesting that every Trump’s action so far that had a potential to affect the prices of oil was meant to make sure the prices do not drop beyond a certain ceiling (I would think of about $60-70 per barrel as this is about what the US shale needs to break even, legacy wells aside). I, personally, do not subscribe to this line of thinking, but it is not a farfetched proposal. Trump cannot lose these voters from the patch. Even if inflation keeps printing hot, the oil prices will stay up in that range at least, in my opinion, as it is not the core reason for inflation nowadays, not in the US or here, anyway.
I know next to nothing on oil and energy. But the intent of the Venezuela op was, at least in part, to deny China an energy supplier, and to deny the axis (China, Russia, Iran) a major proxy and ally. What I do know is that crude is cheap and refined products are expensive. So if China now has to pay more for a product - that's better.

Next impact on the oil market will be Iran. Also a supplier to China.
If the US can force an energy crisis on China, that'd be great.

No one rational person debates the obvious strategic significance of Greenland. But throwing some mud at Denmark, be it the “axis” and “drugs” or “they won’t come if we really need them” in potential preparation for what is to come is obviously something to watch out for. This is off topic though.
I don't follow American news much or at all but I thought they'd at least explained a couple times their interests in Greenland in the maritime security domain.
In one media session with Trump on Venezuela I remember them also asking about Greenland and him talking about that specifically.
 
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