USAF News and Discussion

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Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
IMHO introducing a new but cheap plane for the kind of low threat environments the USAF has seen in the past 13 years is a sensible idea.

Keeping the A-10s up to date is probably as expensive as procuring Super Tucanos or even AirLand Scorpions. The operating costs of maintaining high end fighterbombers on local airfields in some far away sandbox are huge.

A combination of long range bombers (B-1, B-52, B-21) operating from established airfields further away and cheap to run planes operating from local bases is intriguing.

One doesn't need all the bells and whistles of a F-35 to pound insurgents. One may question if there need to be two new planes for ground support but at least one is needed IMHO.

If it's a plane like the AirLand Scorpion one could even use it for high intensity conflicts. Hang some long range standoff PGMs onto it and free up some high end platforms for more demanding missions. Such a plane could for example have fired standoff PGMs onto Iraqi installations from bases at the gulf just as well as any other plane.

Problem could be that the AF brass fears such a plane taking funds away from their high end projects. Could kill it even if it would be an economical sensible decision.
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
Waylander said:
IMHO introducing a new but cheap plane for the kind of low threat environments the USAF has seen in the past 13 years is a sensible idea.

Keeping the A-10s up to date is probably as expensive as procuring Super Tucanos or even AirLand Scorpions. The operating costs of maintaining high end fighterbombers on local airfields in some far away sandbox are huge.

A combination of long range bombers (B-1, B-52, B-21) operating from established airfields further away and cheap to run planes operating from local bases is intriguing.

One doesn't need all the bells and whistles of a F-35 to pound insurgents. One may question if there need to be two new planes for ground support but at least one is needed IMHO.

If it's a plane like the AirLand Scorpion one could even use it for high intensity conflicts. Hang some long range standoff PGMs onto it and free up some high end platforms for more demanding missions. Such a plane could for example have fired standoff PGMs onto Iraqi installations from bases at the gulf just as well as any other plane.

Problem could be that the AF brass fears such a plane taking funds away from their high end projects. Could kill it even if it would be an economical sensible decision.
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over 60 of these have been used by a number of US agencys in the last 6 years - they're normally used as fighting pairs - a spotter which also provides top cover and the shooter, so its not really unexpected in the sense that the original req was COIN but has morphed into CAS as they were invariably used to protect agency and SF teams in "indian" country,
 
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colay1

Member
It sounds more like a trial balloon considering that SecAF James said she first learned of this watching the news. Still, if the AF is looking for a lower-end CAS platform, why not go unmanned? Configured with advanced sensors, network links and mini-PGMs, it should provide the persistence needed to support troops on the ground.
 
W

Waylander

Defense Professional
Verified Defense Pro
With Super Tucanos one can operate from very austere airfields without much of an infrastructure. One also doesn't need lots of satellite bandwith or command infrastructure in country to cope with the time delay.

Then there is the added value of being able to introduce a modicum of CAS capability into less advanced local air forces.

And even a Super Tucano with all the bells and whistles should be cheaper to procure than a Reaper, probably also cheaper to maintain and with a better attrition rate.

It's also complementary. A UCAV gives you longer loiter time but a Tucano gives you eyeballs Mk.I on a slow platform on the area, which can also be an advantage.
 
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colay1

Member
C

colay1

Member
Feanor said:
I apologize if someone already posted on this, I haven't read the entire thread, but I found this interesting. Apparently the F-117s are still flying, though how many or what exact purpose, I can't say.

Самолеты F-117 продолжают летать - bmpd
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With the F-35A achieving IOC, the F-117 seems destined for the breakers. It's remarkable that he US can afford to scrap a platform wih capabilities that other air arms would lust for.


https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...s-ready-to-let-the-lockheed-f-117a-ni-424690/
 
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bdique

Member
Feanor said:
I apologize if someone already posted on this, I haven't read the entire thread, but I found this interesting. Apparently the F-117s are still flying, though how many or what exact purpose, I can't say.

Самолеты F-117 продолжают летать - bmpd
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Read speculation somewhere (can't remember now) that the F-117s could have been kept for research/training purposes, used to replicate certain types of stealthy threats i.e. cruise missiles, stealth aircraft being developed by other nations etc.
 
T

Toblerone

Banned Member
Maybe they should convert some of these to unmanned targets and test some weaponry against a full-size LO adversary.

I don't think any other airforce can have the advantage of testing its equipment in this way. Against real LO aircraft.
 
FormerDirtDart

FormerDirtDart

Well-Known Member
C

colay1

Member
Yeah, that was in the Flight Global report I linked in response to the original query. You can lead a horse to water but....

The aircraft was officially retired from service in April 2008, but Congress demanded that all aircraft mothballed from 30 September 2006 onward be maintained “in a condition that would allow recall of that aircraft to future service”.
 
cdxbow

cdxbow

Well-Known Member
The USAF have been testing micro UAV drone swarms released from an F16. F-16 Fighter Jets May Soon Launch Swarms of Drones | Digital Trends

Designed by MIT, 3D printed with a cell phone level of goodies they seem to be able to carry a variety of small payloads.

Another step towards robotising warfare are the autonomous QF16 - QF-16s: Look Ma, No Hands! which may be the USAF exploring the combat possibilities rather than simply a tow plane. There have been a few constructs bandied about 'the loyal wingman', 'bomb truck', 'arsenal wing' and just about any mission that would have a very high risk of losing a pilot.
 
gf0012-aust

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
at first cut its a throw away article, but in real terms this goes back to what a number of philosophies that are now deeply injected into the USAF (as well as other services)

ie that everything contributes to the fight - and you can see this wrt CAS etc which had previously been platform centric and is now treated as a capability necessity for any aircraft suitably bussed up

the distributed lethality construct articulated by USN applies just as much to the USAF (and others) - and it goes back to whats been said before about the dramatic changes to the combat and common operating pictures expanding way beyond original models

https://theaviationist.com/2016/12/...rms-during-a-big-drug-interdiction-operation/
 
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A

ADMk2

Just a bloke
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
gf0012-aust said:
at first cut its a throw away article, but in real terms this goes back to what a number of philosophies that are now deeply injected into the USAF (as well as other services)

ie that everything contributes to the fight - and you can see this wrt CAS etc which had previously been platform centric and is now treated as a capability necessity for any aircraft suitably bussed up

the distributed lethality construct articulated by USN applies just as much to the USAF (and others) - and it goes back to whats been said before about the dramatic changes to the combat and common operating pictures expanding way beyond original models

https://theaviationist.com/2016/12/...rms-during-a-big-drug-interdiction-operation/
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Had a similar thought about the RAAF in coming years, what with the plan to boost SA amongst the entire force with Link 16 integration amongst all the different platforms and whatnot. I see an opportunity to push further into the non-traditional ISR realm, with the fleet of Litening AT pods that will soon become surplus as RAAF's Hornets phase out.

Much as the USAF has done, including Sniper and Litening pods on B-1B and B-52 aircraft, I think there is a very good argument to re-purpose RAAF's not terribly old fleet of Litening AT pods onto 'standard' airlifters such as the C-27J, C-130J and perhaps the C-17 and P-8A. These aircraft are going to be in theatre regardless and would make a good use of the investment into the podded ISR capability.

Not suggesting necessarily RAAF go beyond that, but I think a good case could be made to boost force level ISR capabilities, particularly when networked in to Link 16 as the USAF has done...
 
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ngatimozart

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The T-X RFP has been was released. So far Lockheed Martin, Boeing, Northrop Grumman, Raytheon and Sierra Nevada Corp are the main contenders with Textron a possibility. The contract winner will be announced in 2017 with IOC in 2025. The contract is valued at US$16.3 billion and is for 350 aircraft.
 
ngatimozart

ngatimozart

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
The final draft RFP for the replacement JSTARS has been released. This is a US$6.9 billion dollar contract for 17 aircraft to replace the current 17 E8C B707 based JSTARS. In this RFP the USAF probably have picked a fight with Congress because they stipulate a cost plus incentive fee whereas Congress have mandated fixed price contracts unless national security is impacted.
 
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