Well... if you want to talk absolute bottom, wait until there is no food to put on the table. How cohesive will the South, the coasts, and the ethnic minorities be then?
US superpower status is shaken
- Thread starter waraich
- Start date
- Status
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #42
I have doubts in your conclusion . US economy is very close to total collapse
The Federal Reserve is Bankrupt
How Did It Happen and What are the Ugly Consequences?
by Matthias Chang
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12648
@Feanor
If the point is reached that there is nothing to eat in the US than the rest of the world is already in shambles...
@Waraich
I know of the comments you have produced on this site so far that you have an axe to grind with the west and especially with the US.
Your comments are full of hope that the US and with it the rest of the corrupt west is going to degenerate into a bunch of failed states.
But what is the alternative to the relatively free economy of the US and the west?
The oppressive regime in China which lives from exporting stuff to the west you despise so much or the healthy economic powerhouses of the middle east or pakistan?
Hoping that the US economy breaks down is as suicidal as one can become because with it the rest of the world is going down the tube, too.
If the point is reached that there is nothing to eat in the US than the rest of the world is already in shambles...
@Waraich
I know of the comments you have produced on this site so far that you have an axe to grind with the west and especially with the US.
Your comments are full of hope that the US and with it the rest of the corrupt west is going to degenerate into a bunch of failed states.
But what is the alternative to the relatively free economy of the US and the west?
The oppressive regime in China which lives from exporting stuff to the west you despise so much or the healthy economic powerhouses of the middle east or pakistan?
Hoping that the US economy breaks down is as suicidal as one can become because with it the rest of the world is going down the tube, too.
The US economy, and to a lesser degree Europe and Japan, regardless of debt levels are fortunate that they remain the R&D / high-end manufacturing centers of the world. Germany today still remains the largest exporter (exceeding China - check the last page of the Economist). This builds in a resilience which other countries relying on commodity based exports don't have. The ME maybe cash rich, but what are they going to do when the oil runs out?
We are witnessing tough times, but the fact is the developing world STILL relies on exports to US and European markets (the former in particular). This is a strong testament to their continued spending power. Yes these countries are in dept, but I ain't seen many going cap in hand to the World Bank or on the receiving end of international aid to prop up their failing economies. We've been here before in the 1930's, and no doubt due to the cyclic nature of things, we will end up here again in 20 years time.
We are witnessing tough times, but the fact is the developing world STILL relies on exports to US and European markets (the former in particular). This is a strong testament to their continued spending power. Yes these countries are in dept, but I ain't seen many going cap in hand to the World Bank or on the receiving end of international aid to prop up their failing economies. We've been here before in the 1930's, and no doubt due to the cyclic nature of things, we will end up here again in 20 years time.
ReAl PrOeLiTeZ
New Member
but in the end americans economy is pretty smart, they connect everybody financial sector in way that. if we go down your going down with us. their market system and economy is so tied up in most countires economy, in that any losses in america have a chain reaction effect that trails down to the end points.
The US has recently become a net importer of food, and that trend is set to only strengthen... so it's not unrealistic that in the even of a US economic meltdown the US would be unable to import food, and unable to grow it. What you say is true, but only in the short term. Even in the medium term there are potential scenarios where the rest of the world is off pretty bad, but the US is off worse.@Feanor
If the point is reached that there is nothing to eat in the US than the rest of the world is already in shambles...
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #47
There is alternative .Please read below article
This crisis has proven very clearly that the apparent strength of the financial markets was illusionary. The happy-go-lucky mood evaporated instantly, with the write-down of losses accompanied by the sackings of executives. It is a principal of Capitalism that there is never too much of anything: never too much growth, never too much speculation, never too high a salary, never too many flights, never too many cars, never too much trade and never too much Oil. What Capitalism has created is speculation, recklessness, greed, arrogance and over-indulgence. This is why every boom is followed by a bust and will continue to do so.
The Khilafah Plc
The Islamic system has a completely different philosophy for the economy and as a result it treds a path completely different to Capitalism:
The Islamic economic system is about people and their needs, not economic growth. Muhammad (saw) said: "The son of Adam has no better right than that he would have a house wherein he may live and a piece of cloth whereby he may hide his nakedness and a piece of bread and some water" (Tirmidhi). This forms the basis of the Economic system of Islam, all policies and rules are geared towards achieving such ends. Islam focuses on the needs of the people which this hadith outlined rather then merely increasing GDP.
To achieve such ends the state has been ordained by Islam to play a direct role in the economy and not leave things completely to the free market. Ibn ‘Abbas Narrated as reported by Abu Dawud that Muhammad (saw) said: "Muslims are partners in three things: in water, pastures and fire." Based upon this hadith the state takes direct ownership of the fire based resources such as oil, gas, refineries, electricity plans as well as the water resources. In this way society will not be open to abuse by private companies who make a killing from such key essential utilities. The state will also control key institutions in society so it will be in a position to act well before it’s too late.
The Islamic economy does not have a dual economy – a large financial sector where essentially bets takes place on what will happen in the real economy. The financial sector consists of financial instruments such as stocks and shares, derivatives and securitised products which apart from involving interest (Riba) involve transactions over items which do not require partners to have ownership of them.
The Islamic economy is based upon the real economy and as a result all its rules are based upon ensuring wealth circulation continually occurs. The prohibition of interest means investing wealth can only take place by placing ones wealth in the real economy as there is no other place to invest, if one keeps their money in a bank account (where there will be no interest) it will be liable for taxation at the end of the tax year. Taxation in Islam is wealth based rather then income, hence under Islam there would be no income tax, VAT, road tax etc. This means individuals will have much more disposable income which can practically only be invested in the real economy, this will create a multiplier effect as money will circulate from person to person. It is interest, the financial markets and direct taxation that hinder wealth circulation.
The Islamic system clearly laid down the rules for ownership and how to dispose of assets; these have been outlined in general principals which can be extended through analogy to new realities. This will bring the much needed stability to the economy absent in the West who continually change the goal posts with free markets and the free economy. After every crisis or crash the debate always centres on how much the government should be involved in the economy and how much should be left to the free market. Currently it is state intervention which is keeping the Capitalist economy afloat, through bailouts and the involvement of Sovereign wealth funds, banks have been saved from collapsing. It was these same banks who for decades have argued for deregulation.
Conclusions
The Global credit crunch has once again highlighted the fragility of Capitalism, as the fallout from the credit crunch and the wider economic crisis continues, demands for alternatives are certain to grow and it is here the Islamic economic model represents a compelling case for an alternative economic system. The Islamic system is more then the prohibition of interest and Islamic finance and unlike Capitalism places the needs of the people not economic growth as the central issue that require answers and policies.
http://adnan-globalissues.blogspot.com/2008/09/disaster-capitalism.html
I knew it.
The so-called "islamic system" is so superior to the western way.
That is the reason why the islamic world and the economic powerhouses of which it consists dominated the world for centuries and are responsible for most of the advancements, new technologies and wealth of this time.
Ok, let's have a look at what most islamic countries did with their oil revenues. The ruling class lives in golden palaces while islamic brothers from pakistan work for them without getting paid alot.
And apart from the UAE not many countries used the billions and billions of oil dollars to invest in a lasting infrastructure and industrial base which allows the to prosper when the oil doesn't flow at some point in the future.
And the financial market is what gives companies the money to invest in new technlogies and to expand.
Who do you think is going to give the companies the needed credits?
From the individuals which no longer put their poney onto the bank?
I want to see how a company like VW is going to finance a new modern factory with the help of thousands of individuals who are now free to invest their money...
The financial market is what keeps the economy alive and growing.
Mistakes have been made and some things went clearly wrong but in the end there can be no growth without a healthy financial market.
You think something like the renessaince or the industrial revolution would have been possible within an islamic system which doesn't assists in economic growth?
Questionable.
Arguing that the current western system needs replacement and then showing the islamic system as an alternative is brave when one considers history and how many advancements have come out of the islamic world since some time...
The so-called "islamic system" is so superior to the western way.
That is the reason why the islamic world and the economic powerhouses of which it consists dominated the world for centuries and are responsible for most of the advancements, new technologies and wealth of this time.
Ok, let's have a look at what most islamic countries did with their oil revenues. The ruling class lives in golden palaces while islamic brothers from pakistan work for them without getting paid alot.
And apart from the UAE not many countries used the billions and billions of oil dollars to invest in a lasting infrastructure and industrial base which allows the to prosper when the oil doesn't flow at some point in the future.
And the financial market is what gives companies the money to invest in new technlogies and to expand.
Who do you think is going to give the companies the needed credits?
From the individuals which no longer put their poney onto the bank?
I want to see how a company like VW is going to finance a new modern factory with the help of thousands of individuals who are now free to invest their money...
The financial market is what keeps the economy alive and growing.
Mistakes have been made and some things went clearly wrong but in the end there can be no growth without a healthy financial market.
You think something like the renessaince or the industrial revolution would have been possible within an islamic system which doesn't assists in economic growth?
Questionable.
Arguing that the current western system needs replacement and then showing the islamic system as an alternative is brave when one considers history and how many advancements have come out of the islamic world since some time...
What you fail to understand is that, despite Islam being a thing of beauty and perfect in every way, not everyone is Muslim and not every non-Muslim agrees to this philosophy mainly because, they're not Muslim. They are not about to take the word of the Quran, Hadith and Sunnah if they do not believe in it.
ESPECIALLY since some of them think that Islamic values are another way of preventing greed from taking over the entire economy. Greed fuels the capitalist economy. That's why the Iraq War happened in the first place. I still don't see any "WMDs".
Everyday, a lot of capitalists make shit up and sell them to consumers who probably didn't need them in the first place. Of course, there are exceptions. For example: Computers and Internet service.
You see, Islam is in one way, similar to communism. (I know it's not, but in this case it is.) IT HAS TO BE APPLIED CORRECTLY AND GLOBALLY. Those poor excuse of Sultans in the Arab countries resting on their gigantic throne rooms enslaving their own people DO NOT REPRESENT what Islam is or what the economic system in Islam is. Hell, as a Muslim I do not endorse these lavish Sultans. Instead of funding aid for the Palestians who die in the thousands everyday, they buy more and more BMWs and other luxuries for Allah only knows what.
This system is bound to one's interpretation of the Hadith, Sunnah and Quran. Not all are correct.
In the case of those other countries, it's simple. They are not doing it correctly.
If you want to apply this all over the world than, as you rightly said, the fact that many people are not muslims stands in it's way.
I for example don't want to be ruled by islamic laws just as I don't want any christian, jewish, whatever church to rule my life.
Motivation not greed is what fuels economic growth.
There is no motivation in a system which doesn't reward success, hard work and new ideas.
If everything is sucked up by the whole society and divided in equal shares than there is no motivation.
Why should I even try to work harder or to bring up new ideas if this is not rewarded?
Such a system can only succede when everybody is full of altruism.
And we all know that mankind is not close to being like that.
As for many islamic states in the ME not being what they should be.
How can a system work when even in all these countries it doesn't work?
The whole middle east is full of islamic countries and there is not a single one, be it blessed with oil or not, where it works.
Or in other islamic countries like in Africa or Pakistan. Not one of these countries is an example of how well the "islamic-system" works.
So why should it work in a world where most people are not even muslims and have no desire to become muslims when there is no example of where it works even on a small scale.
I for example don't want to be ruled by islamic laws just as I don't want any christian, jewish, whatever church to rule my life.
Motivation not greed is what fuels economic growth.
There is no motivation in a system which doesn't reward success, hard work and new ideas.
If everything is sucked up by the whole society and divided in equal shares than there is no motivation.
Why should I even try to work harder or to bring up new ideas if this is not rewarded?
Such a system can only succede when everybody is full of altruism.
And we all know that mankind is not close to being like that.
As for many islamic states in the ME not being what they should be.
How can a system work when even in all these countries it doesn't work?
The whole middle east is full of islamic countries and there is not a single one, be it blessed with oil or not, where it works.
Or in other islamic countries like in Africa or Pakistan. Not one of these countries is an example of how well the "islamic-system" works.
So why should it work in a world where most people are not even muslims and have no desire to become muslims when there is no example of where it works even on a small scale.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #52
No doubt ,Gulf oil rich states are misusing their wealth and have no system of accountability,that is reason kingship is HARAM(prohibited) in Islam .
Your knowledge about earlier inventions of islamic world and muslim contribution for humanity is too limited.
Please read below post to enlighten your thoughts , muslim scientist did great job in field of science and technology and for service of humanity.
Setting the Record Straight: The Miracle of Islamic Science
December 10, 2007 ·
http://sakooterspeaks.wordpress.com...cord-straight-the-miracle-of-islamic-science/
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #53
Western preception about islam is not correct ,islam is way of life and emphsis on implementation of five pillars of islam through practice in society and where ever there is dispute islam provide total freedom to resolve that issue in the light of Quran in the benefit of humanity.
Non muslim have total freedom and protection in muslim society much better then capitalism and socialism but because at the moment there is no state fully comply shariah and islamic financial system it would be difficult to develop confidence of western world.
Last edited:
I never said that the islamic world never invented anything in the past.
I totally agree that for example during the time of the crusades the Islamic world was more advanced than europe.
But what did they do with it in the following centuries?
They fell back more and more.
Saying that because the islamic world was well ahead of other powers of it's time nearly a 1000 years ago doesn't change the fact that at some point in the past the islamic world began to fall behind.
Using the medieval time as an example of how well an islamic system would work is a little bit far fetched don't you think?
The west emerged as the leading power because it stopped being stuck past. A system which mostly relies on religion cannot prosper in the same way like a free society.
That is not said that religion cannot be an integral part of a soviety but it being the fixing point of a society just doesn't work.
The west really began to prosper when it decided to work it's way out of the shadows of the church.
I totally agree that for example during the time of the crusades the Islamic world was more advanced than europe.
But what did they do with it in the following centuries?
They fell back more and more.
Saying that because the islamic world was well ahead of other powers of it's time nearly a 1000 years ago doesn't change the fact that at some point in the past the islamic world began to fall behind.
Using the medieval time as an example of how well an islamic system would work is a little bit far fetched don't you think?
The west emerged as the leading power because it stopped being stuck past. A system which mostly relies on religion cannot prosper in the same way like a free society.
That is not said that religion cannot be an integral part of a soviety but it being the fixing point of a society just doesn't work.
The west really began to prosper when it decided to work it's way out of the shadows of the church.
Guys, let's stop this before it turns into a war. It's clear here that neither one of us wants to give up this argument and before this turns into an entire my-musket-is-better-than-yours thing.
Going back on track to what the topic truly is, personally the US is going to lose it's title as a super-power if it doesn't get it's arse up and running economically.
Going back on track to what the topic truly is, personally the US is going to lose it's title as a super-power if it doesn't get it's arse up and running economically.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #56
This is main difference in other religion and islam that it helps and provide safe and secure path for advancement and development and encourage reasearch and technology and protect and provide gurantee for safety of life and property. first word of Quran is "Read" .
It is just fear and mispreception in western world about islam that how islamic laws can be implemented in modren world.
We muslim consider ourself guilty for this sin that we are not practicing islam in our life as indidual and society and by this act creating hindrence for others non muslims to get benefit of blessing of God which lies in it.
autumn child
New Member
Reliance creates power still holds true. Many nations still relies on US economy to grow. The fiancial crisis in the US has effected the world economy. There is no better proove that the world still relies on the US and this means that US is still powerful.
I agree that the current capitalist system focus too much on growth and consumption. Personally i don't agree that we all should consume as much as possible to prop up the economy. The cause of the crisis stems from the flawed system of asian countries producing too much cheap goods and exporting low inflation to US. The US in return has excess money or loose money that went to Asian countries again as foreign investment to produce more cheap goods while some goes to the real estate as subprime mortgage. The rest is history. Therefore there is no real one person to blame, but alot of the blame goes to the fed for creating too loose of a monetary policy for such a long time.
We should not categorize the current system as western system anymore. It is slowly changing and evolving with the participation of non western countries. It is the emerging global trade systems that is still in its infancy and requires alot of growing up to do. I disagree with the mixing of religion and economics as religions role is to provide salvation spuiritually and economics is to distribute resurce efficiently. I believe that the world needs to learn moderation. loose regulation will create buble as we have seen in the US and too much regulation leads to inefficient economy as we see in classical communism. The world need to create a regulatory bodies that prevent the world economy from collapsing. This balancing act is of course easier said than done. As for the immidiate remedy, asian especially chinese need to spend more and US needs to save more to abolish the current imbalances. Chinese have about 3.5 trillion in personal savings and 2 trillion in foreign reserve. Spending a fraction of this money can be beneficial to the world economy, while the US need to cut down on spending and regain its basic footing (and of course reality check on consumption fantasy).
I agree that the current capitalist system focus too much on growth and consumption. Personally i don't agree that we all should consume as much as possible to prop up the economy. The cause of the crisis stems from the flawed system of asian countries producing too much cheap goods and exporting low inflation to US. The US in return has excess money or loose money that went to Asian countries again as foreign investment to produce more cheap goods while some goes to the real estate as subprime mortgage. The rest is history. Therefore there is no real one person to blame, but alot of the blame goes to the fed for creating too loose of a monetary policy for such a long time.
We should not categorize the current system as western system anymore. It is slowly changing and evolving with the participation of non western countries. It is the emerging global trade systems that is still in its infancy and requires alot of growing up to do. I disagree with the mixing of religion and economics as religions role is to provide salvation spuiritually and economics is to distribute resurce efficiently. I believe that the world needs to learn moderation. loose regulation will create buble as we have seen in the US and too much regulation leads to inefficient economy as we see in classical communism. The world need to create a regulatory bodies that prevent the world economy from collapsing. This balancing act is of course easier said than done. As for the immidiate remedy, asian especially chinese need to spend more and US needs to save more to abolish the current imbalances. Chinese have about 3.5 trillion in personal savings and 2 trillion in foreign reserve. Spending a fraction of this money can be beneficial to the world economy, while the US need to cut down on spending and regain its basic footing (and of course reality check on consumption fantasy).
ReAl PrOeLiTeZ
New Member
umm people really really off topic, i thought mine was off topic but islamic now??
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #59
You are again suggesting the same prescription which is root cause of desease,there nothing wrong with the players and match refree's , we need to change the rule of game ,by increasing the number of players and putting more match refrees will not stop the foul play
And you need to understand that NOT ALL PLAYERS want to play by the new rules because in the new ruling itself (Islam), those players are ALLOWED to choose so.You are again suggesting the same prescription which is root cause of desease,there nothing wrong with the players and match refree's , we need to change the rule of game ,by increasing the number of players and putting more match refrees will not stop the foul play
- Status