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StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
It's spacious and roomy, meaning it'll be easy to work in and around, much easier to handle damage control and evacuate casualties. Assuming the divisions in ventilation and water tight compartments have been well thought out (and I have no evidence to suggest otherwise) then it looks like a solid leap forward.

I'd say ditch Flight III and just tweak this one personally.
 

StingrayOZ

Super Moderator
Staff member
It's spacious and roomy, meaning it'll be easy to work in and around, much easier to handle damage control and evacuate casualties. Assuming the divisions in ventilation and water tight compartments have been well thought out (and I have no evidence to suggest otherwise) then it looks like a solid leap forward.

I'd say ditch Flight III and just tweak this one personally.
I do wonder if that will happen. Maybe just one gun, aegis, bmd, more vls. A few basic cost reduction measures. They will have plenty of space/power for upgrades, lasers, rail guns, radars etc. with lower crewing requirements they should be cheaper to operate by about half.

Now the thing is built I think stake holders will quickly see the value in it. With flight iii looking pretty expensive and definitely a last century ship, with very little/no growth potential.
 

Belesari

New Member
It's spacious and roomy, meaning it'll be easy to work in and around, much easier to handle damage control and evacuate casualties. Assuming the divisions in ventilation and water tight compartments have been well thought out (and I have no evidence to suggest otherwise) then it looks like a solid leap forward.

I'd say ditch Flight III and just tweak this one personally.
I was all for the Flight III at first but after they got through adding about a hundred things to what could have been a obvious refit or rebuild its grown out of proportion.

I think the DDG 1k or at least a variant of it might be the thing. We'll see what needs changing or tweaking after the trials and a few years in service. Needless to say Many of the technology represented in the class will carry on into future vessel's.

Can the modern 5 in be implaced into a twin turret anymore?
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Flight IIa was already up against it's margins for growth and the USN has a well established inability to do "just enough" so I think it was always obvious that the feature set would creep. Doing a warmed over IIa never seemed realistic to me because of that. I hope they'll rethink terminating DDG at 3 ships, put it that way.
 

Daryl

New Member
How about a Joseph Stalin? :)
I am not trying to offend anyone but everything I've read tells me this was not a great war leader but someone who took credit for a great war that he personally made far more difficult for the Russians. First he eliminated his top command because he feared them, (because they were more intelligent than he was? Never did find an answer to that one), then made a deal with Hitler and stuck to it despite all evidence, and shall I go on. A Russian carrier named the Putin makes more sense.

Course if you were trying to make a joke I can go with it. It could intimidate others. No one wants to have another Stalin around.
 

Daryl

New Member
What about the new Coast Guard ships?

I just noticed on the ship list for Bath Iron Works that there is a Burke Class Destroyer called the John S McCain, so if the old boy is elected will he be the first serving President with a ship in active service named after him?
I see you are from Norway so you might not know about the McCain family. The Grandfather was a famous admiral, his Son ran a big carrier task group in WWII and the Grandson was a navy carrier pilot shot down in Vietnam and later went into politics. The McCain is named for the politician's father, I believe.
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
I am not trying to offend anyone but everything I've read tells me this was not a great war leader but someone who took credit for a great war that he personally made far more difficult for the Russians. First he eliminated his top command because he feared them, (because they were more intelligent than he was? Never did find an answer to that one), then made a deal with Hitler and stuck to it despite all evidence, and shall I go on. A Russian carrier named the Putin makes more sense.

Course if you were trying to make a joke I can go with it. It could intimidate others. No one wants to have another Stalin around.
It's possible your browser wasn't displaying the smiley just after the question mark but I'd take that as a sign Feanor was just having a wee joke, not making a serious suggestion.
 

AegisFC

Super Moderator
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
You do *not* want a nuclear reactor in a surface combatant - you puncture one in a shooting match and it's a total goat f*ck.
Friedmans US destroyers book brought up a problem with nuclear surface combatants that I never thought of before. It makes them more balance critical and that can affect future upgrades. Basically with a nuke plant there is not large amounts of fluid (fuel) to transfer between tanks to keep the trim adjusted if you add or remove weight instead ballast would need to be added in a different part of the hull. Not a show stopper but just an additional issue.

It's spacious and roomy, meaning it'll be easy to work in and around, much easier to handle damage control and evacuate casualties. Assuming the divisions in ventilation and water tight compartments have been well thought out (and I have no evidence to suggest otherwise) then it looks like a solid leap forward.

I'd say ditch Flight III and just tweak this one personally.
A spacious CIC with extra consoles and the room that can embark a DESRON staff, Flag staff or other additions (Marine gunfire support staff?) for a particular mission is a nifty feature. Embarking them on a Burke is a pain for everyone since there are not enough consoles or space for everyone to operate comfortably. The Burkes were never really designed to operate with an embarked staff since at the time of their design the staff would be embarked on a ship with enough room (a Spruance, or whatever replaced them, aka a DDG-100), since Rummy disposed of the Sprucans early Burkes became the only option.
Until the USN decides what it REALLY wants the Flight III is an important filler design just to keep the yards busy doing something useful, letting them shut down wouldn't be a good thing.

I do wonder if that will happen. Maybe just one gun, aegis, bmd, more vls. A few basic cost reduction measures. They will have plenty of space/power for upgrades, lasers, rail guns, radars etc. with lower crewing requirements they should be cheaper to operate by about half.

Now the thing is built I think stake holders will quickly see the value in it. With flight iii looking pretty expensive and definitely a last century ship, with very little/no growth potential.
Keep the engineering plant and the PVLS and ditch everything else. AMDR hooked to a variant of CND and a standard LWG gun or two.
No matter what the USN build the armchair admirals will hate it.

Flight IIa was already up against it's margins for growth and the USN has a well established inability to do "just enough" so I think it was always obvious that the feature set would creep. Doing a warmed over IIa never seemed realistic to me because of that. I hope they'll rethink terminating DDG at 3 ships, put it that way.
Right now the plan is for the first batch to be Flight IIA's with Baseline 9 and some other upgrades. Flight III is still several years away since AMDR isn't even developed yet.
The problem is "just enough" doesn't play well with the US Congress. They tend to see "just enough" as "not enough".

More on the Zumwalt. Interesting info on the computing complex employed on the ship. The bridge looks like a Hollywood B-movie set :D
It looks to be the most comfortable posting at sea for even the lowest-ranked seaman with amenities to envy.

Inside The Zumwalt Destroyer | Popular Science
That isn't the bridge, it is another example of the media getting it wrong. That is a CIC mockup using COS equivalent consoles (Dell monitors and tower) for software testing and training.
http://surfwarmag.ahf.nmci.navy.mil/feature_ddg_1000.html
At the bottom of that page they have an image of what the completed CIC should look like. The consoles look like the same ones Aegis Baseline 9 uses, which makes sense.
 

SASWanabe

Member
Seeing the conversation on Fords looks over on the RN thread got me curious.

can anyone tell me what the "Boxes" are on her stern?
 

StobieWan

Super Moderator
Staff member
Seeing the conversation on Fords looks over on the RN thread got me curious.

can anyone tell me what the "Boxes" are on her stern?
They're sponsons to provide additional space which I believe is intended at least in part for countermeasures and possibly additional VLS or similar.

More room basically.
 

harryriedl

Active Member
Verified Defense Pro
That isn't the bridge, it is another example of the media getting it wrong. That is a CIC mockup using COS equivalent consoles (Dell monitors and tower) for software testing and training.
http://surfwarmag.ahf.nmci.navy.mil/feature_ddg_1000.html
At the bottom of that page they have an image of what the completed CIC should look like. The consoles look like the same ones Aegis Baseline 9 uses, which makes sense.
I am looking at this wrong but isn't it on two levels the CIC I wondering what the motivation for moving to such a drastically different design of CIC
 

Daryl

New Member
Don't ignore everything else, she's a fascinating vessel and was designed the way she was for a reason, by people that know better than you or I do (not having a go at you, just encouraging you to think about why they might have made certain decisions so as to better understand the design). Remember that naval defensive systems these days aren't about armour plating, it's about systems like signature management, defensive armament like CIWS/missiles, electronic warfare like jamming/Nulka/etc etc... and as Aegis said it's not exactly a first for USN surface combatants. And there are benefits to having advanced and large command facilities, too.

My point is I don't think it should bug you so much that you're really bothered by it. Think of the reasons why such a command centre could be useful, rather than the reasons why not, and you'll probably find yourself understanding the design better.
I'd like to add that it will not have a big electronic signature to match the big visual tower, and from the sounds of it they do not intend to let threats get that close to it, let alone all the countermeasures. At the cost they are quoting it will probably be under a carriers air cover in conflict areas as well, just pumping shells over the horizon into targets. And shells are still effective even though cheap compared to planes, pilots and so on.
 

colay

New Member
SM-6 has achieved IOC and adds a new dimension to maritime AAW. A nice example of how one can repurpose existing tech to attain a much needed capability without having to reinvent the wheel.

I am intrigued to seeing how they leverage the JSF's spherical SA and networking attributes in conjunction with the new missile to expand AEGIS' defensive umbrella. Lots of Navies are looking forward to this to their inventories for sure.

US Navy deploys Standard Missile-6 for first time | Missiles & Bombs News at DefenceTalk
 

ASSAIL

The Bunker Group
Verified Defense Pro
Now that a doyen of naval writing has supported the concept there is hope that some of the welded on traditionalists (who blindly follow Friedman) will start to see the LCS concept in a different light. Here's hoping. :rolleyes:
 

gf0012-aust

Grumpy Old Man
Staff member
Verified Defense Pro
I attended one of Friedmans lectures a few years back when he was a guest speaker for ADF.

facscinating bloke
 
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