US lifts export controls on Nuclear equip for India

adsH

New Member
srirangan said:
>> and Pakistanis are the direct descendent of the Indian Mughal Empire.

That is the biggest peice of gibberish I heard ever .. The direct descendent of the Mughal dynasty are to be found in a poor neighboorhood in Kolkotta; Bahadur Shah Zafar the last Mughal emperor was banished to bengal by the British when they crushed the Sepoy Mutiny of 1857.
the mughuls were central Asian in origin correct me if i am wrong!! there language was Persian correct me if i am wrong. teh poor neighbhourhood you speak off is or were most of the pakistani imigrants you spatt!!

Pakistani are immigrants did you sleep through your history classes, the mass exit of Muslims from India in 1947!! My family were landlord we exited too. to pakistan!!



abit of history for the ignorant here!!

Events at the beginning of the twenty-first century underline the historic importance of the ties between the Middle East and Central Asia on the one hand and South Asia on the other. A study of the history of the Silk Road illuminates those ties. One need merely consider the events leading to the spread of Greco-Bactrian culture (the legacy of Alexander the Great in Central Asia) into northern India in the time of the Kushan Empire (ca. 100 CE), which straddled routes from today's Uzbekistan through Afghanistan and into Northern Pakistan and India. At a later period, Islamic dynasties in Persia or Afghanistan would extend their territories eastward into Northern India, providing the basis for the Islamization of the region beginning in the late twelfth century. The last of the Muslim sultans of Delhi was brought down by a new invasion from the northwest, that of Tamerlane in 1398. Even though Tamerlane then turned elsewhere, that event served as one of the bases for the legitimacy of his heirs, the Mughals, to rule India.


The Mughals' consciousness of their Central Asian roots and the prominence of Persian and Central Asian culture at their courts are an important chapter in the history of the Silk Road. The founder of the Mughal dynasty, Babur, was a descendant of both the Mongol Chingisids and the Timurids. Babur had grown up in the Ferghana Valley (the eastern part of today's Uzbekistan), briefly held Samarkand, but then been driven out by the invading Uzbeks. He went to Kabul, where eventually he would be buried, and toward the end of his life in 1526 finally gained a foothold in India.


The firm establishment of Mughal rule in India was really the work of his grandson, Akbar (1556-1605), arguably the greatest of the Mughal emperors. Under Akbar the empire became one of the wealthiest states of Eurasia. While many of its important trade routes were oceanic, the overland routes to Safavid Persia, Central Asia and even China continued to function much as they had in the early centuries of the Silk Road. As the Dutch and British India companies began to develop networks in the East, their representatives sometimes traveled the overland routes from Persia through Afghanistan. The rise of the European traders did not mean the demise of native Asian merchant corporations, as is sometimes assumed.


Akbar was eclectic in his religious and cultural views, employing at his court many Naqshbandi Sufis from Central Asia but also allowing the Jesuits to establish themselves. One of the fascinating documents of the overland travel to China is an account of Benedict Goës, a Jesuit who left Akbar's court in Agra, traveled northwest through Afghanistan and then northeast along the old route of the northern Silk Road around the Takla Makan. Akbar's eclectic tastes can be seen in the art of the capital he built and soon abandoned at Fatehpur Sikri, not far from Delhi. The architecture is largely Indian, but the decorative motifs draw heavily upon both Persian and Chinese models.


All of the Mughals, beginning with Babur, had a particular fascination with Tamerlane and their Central Asian roots. Histories of Tamerlane's conquests were read and copied, poetry and painting invoked Tamerlane as the direct ancestor of the Mughal emperors, various commemorative inscriptions were erected. Akbar's son and successor Jahangir (1605-1627) entertained writers from Central Asia, and in conversations with one of them in 1627 inquired specifically about the Gur-i Mir, Tamerlane's tomb in Samarkand, and offered to pay for its upkeep. Jahangir's son, Shah Jahan (1628-1657) actually came close to reconquering Central Asia--for a time the Mughals found themselves in control of Herat, which had succeeded Samarkand as the Timurid capital in the fifteenth century.


Apart from literature and poetry, the Central Asian and Persian influences in the arts of the Mughal court can be seen in monumental architecture, most notably that of tombs. The great domed mausoleums of the Mughal rulers were based on the models from the territories of the former Timurid Empire. We can see this both in the first of these major Mughal tombs, that of Babur's son, Humayun, in Delhi and in the most famous of all the Mughal buildings, the Taj Mahal, built by Shah Jahan to commemorate his wife. The road to the Taj Mahal leads through Samarkand.


--Daniel C. Waugh


Bibliography:

Richard C. Foltz, Mughal India and Central Asia (Karachi, etc.: Oxford University Pr., 1998).

Sheila S. Blair, Jonathan M. Bloom. The Art and Architecture of Islam 1250-1800 (Yale UP, 1994).


http://depts.washington.edu/uwch/silkroad/exhibit/mughals/essay.html
 

srirangan

Banned Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #22
hehe .. so Urdu is the exclusive language for the Mughal family .. yeah right .. you been living too long in UK mate, you have no clue about history

>> its the basic fact the Subcontinent muslims are the Decendents of the
>> Mughul empire, i didn't say the the Mughal dynasty

1) There were muslims in India 400 years before the Mughals emerged from Kabul. Okay? Heard of the Delhi Sultanates? Yeah, muslims in the subcontinent since the 11th century AD. Mughals appeared on scene in the 16th century.

2) I just proved to you that subcontinental muslims are from various different races, so its impossible for them to have a common decent let alone be a part of the Mughal empire. No bengali muslims are not the same as punjabi muslims, and neither of them are mughals. Mughals have been traced down to Kublai Khan and the mongols.

Go read history, learn something and come back post.
 

adsH

New Member
urdu is the word Lashkar meaning the Army. its is a mixer of Subcontinent language and the most obvious language is the the persian in it. the Muslims of india were definitely ruled by mughals ( hindu's had no choice). there is no doubt about that and the mughls are just one of the many rulers but they are the ones the Muslims of the subcontinent relate too. your case is too week mate.
Urdu was supported by Mughals
 

srirangan

Banned Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #24
I'm not arguing about Urdu. I'm saying muslims in Pak, their bloodline has nothing to do with the Mughals. You claimed they were direct disendents in your first off-topic post. I proved to you that there are many different ethnic races in Pak, each of them having different ancestories; and none of tem related to the Mughal's.

And weak as in "not strong" is spelt as "weak" and not "week". You aren't doing any justice to the Location: U.K. that appears when you post.
 

adsH

New Member
srirangan said:
And weak as in "not strong" is spelt as "weak" and not "week". You aren't doing any justice to the Location: U.K. that appears when you post.
dude i can spell whatever as i want to, finally ur case is so weak. that you're now resorting to methods that i would attribute as being trivial. its a pity that we can't have an argument where you don't break up. Oh and by the way i happen to be slightly dyslexic so i think you would agree i can make these errors. i live in teh Uk i was born here I am british but i don't forget where i come from, i read my history with pride and i am not ashamed of it. so go fish somewhere else where you can make petty arguments and get away with it.
 

srirangan

Banned Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #26
SInce you would rather falme than discuss I'll post my debate again, reply to this if you can:

I'm saying muslims in Pak, their bloodline has nothing to do with the Mughals. You claimed they were direct disendents in your first off-topic post. I proved to you that there are many different ethnic races in Pak, each of them having different ancestories; and none of tem related to the Mughal's.
 

adsH

New Member
i am not going to get down to your level, this has become a source of pride more then a topic of discussion for you, Mughuls were a ruling family that the Subcontinent muslims pledged there ligeance to, most pakistanis would agree to this. And so the people in Pakistan and a great number of them in India are descendants fo the Mughal empire, and Empire is not only the rulers them selves but there Army there leaders and there civilians who form a culture, its stupid to bring bloodline into it, since mughls were anyone who were apart of the system. there for the Pakistani and alot of indians are Mughal empire descendants. No matter how much you try and remove the mughals out of the history they aren't going anywhere. its like saying Saudis are not Saudis becasue they don't have the Royal Saud blood in them. your ignorance shines through again
 

srirangan

Banned Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #28
I'm not removing mughal's from history, I'm saying the pashtun's, sindhi's, gujjars, punjabi's and tribals and other ethnic tribes have nothing to do with the Mughal dynasty. The direct ancestors of the Mughals are found in the present state of bengal. How foolish are you, can't you understand this simple fact? :roll
 

adsH

New Member
srirangan said:
. The direct ancestors of the Mughals are found in the present state of bengal. How foolish are you, can't you understand this simple fact? :roll
My family along with alot of others are from bengal side we settled in the west Pakistan side it is a well known fact, but its not the bloodline that make you much more its who Muslim of the subcontinent were or are. Punjabis Sindhis Pathan were a part of the Empire, they were the citizens. What kind of of idiot are you why can't you stop Going on and onn about nothing all you do is show how ignorant arrogant you really are, every time you reply on this topic it shows that you don't really know what Empires civilizations like these are about.
 

highsea

New Member
adsH said:
so highsea when people say things like Pakistan got there nukes from China, theyre basically slapping pakistani scientist ( Some are by the way noble Prize winners). people also forget that the US employs many Pakistani (immigrants) in major research. so by just commenting on Indian scientist you sort of forget the fact there are other scientist who can do the job too. Pakistani's DON'T BRAGG!!
adsH, I was not knocking Pakistani scientists. I just pointed out to Myst that his comments about Indian scientists ignored their contribution to physics in the 20th century.

Of course the same can be said for Pakistan, Japan, Russia, and many other countries. My post was not meant to be an all inclusive dissertation on the various countries and their scientific capabilities. It was simply a rebuttal of Myst's assertion that India was incapable of developing atomic power on their own.

These discussions seem to quickly degrade into nationalistic chest-thumping, which is too bad, really, because it makes it kind of hard to discuss the topics.

peace,
-CM
 

adsH

New Member
well high sea i wasn't attacking you or your comments but the general attacks pointed towards Pakistanis and there scientist, who have worked really hard to develop a technology. the media's propaganda makes Pakistanis look like Rogue thugs who have a habit ot stealing technology, even tho Pakistani do contribute alot to the TEch world. this topic was going so fine just before Sri had to show his Ignorant side. it is a shame he can't see through his veil of self righteous personality and ignorance, arrogance to admit that he's at fault here.
 

redsoulja

New Member
gusy can we gp back to the topic at hand and forget about mughals and pakistanis, i've noticed everytime he have a topic onvolving one subject it always goes back to the whole pakistan-india rivalry,we want to talk about teh subject at hand, why dont u guys make a separate thread for Pak-Indo problems and leave them out of threads that have no connection to your rivalry
 

srirangan

Banned Member
  • Thread Starter Thread Starter
  • #34
My family along with alot of others are from bengal side we settled in the west Pakistan side it is a well known fact, but its not the bloodline that make you much more its who Muslim of the subcontinent were or are. Punjabis Sindhis Pathan were a part of the Empire, they were the citizens.
Dude, everyone was a part of the Mughal empire. And then later the British empire. But that doesn't make us of Mughal discent or British discent. TO be called a Mughal you should have a blood relation with the family. End of off-topic from my side.
 
Top