The Greeks are replacing their A7 in the attack role, the scoop for a Rafale sale to Greece is just as good as it was before the F-16 deal...contedicavour DefTalker Greece (has Mirage 2000s but is buying the latest F16s and should order Typhoons shortly),
As well as the M2K-9, the UAE has all those F-16Es being delivered. More fighters than it can operate. Many of the Mirage 2000-9 are in storage, & many of the F-16E are expected to join them as soon as they're delivered. Not enough pilots, not enough ground crew. UAE AF needs more fighters like it needs a hole in its collective head. If I was the UAE head of government, any defence minister or air force commander who came to me with a proposal to buy Rafale (or any other new fighter) would be shot for treason, unless he accompanied it with a signed contract from someone to buy the entire fleet of one of the current types, & all the clearances from either France or the USA for re-export....That leaves the EAU as another potential market (even if it has the latest Mirage 2000-9s) and may be Brazil eventually (though more second hand -2000s are more likely for lack of funds).
cheers
At least this way they get to buy political and military protection...As well as the M2K-9, the UAE has all those F-16Es being delivered. More fighters than it can operate. Many of the Mirage 2000-9 are in storage, & many of the F-16E are expected to join them as soon as they're delivered. Not enough pilots, not enough ground crew. UAE AF needs more fighters like it needs a hole in its collective head. If I was the UAE head of government, any defence minister or air force commander who came to me with a proposal to buy Rafale (or any other new fighter) would be shot for treason, unless he accompanied it with a signed contract from someone to buy the entire fleet of one of the current types, & all the clearances from either France or the USA for re-export
Is this the case with all the gulf states? They all seem to have either Pakistani or Egyptian pilots flying their planes with nationals operating 30% or so of their fleet and some times less. Didn't the UAE find only one UAE national last year that was qualified enough to be a pilot for the F-16E? I wonder who flies the Saudi AWACS or if its even been operated by a 100% Saudi crew in its 20+ years in service?As well as the M2K-9, the UAE has all those F-16Es being delivered. More fighters than it can operate. Many of the Mirage 2000-9 are in storage, & many of the F-16E are expected to join them as soon as they're delivered. Not enough pilots, not enough ground crew. UAE AF needs more fighters like it needs a hole in its collective head. If I was the UAE head of government, any defence minister or air force commander who came to me with a proposal to buy Rafale (or any other new fighter) would be shot for treason, unless he accompanied it with a signed contract from someone to buy the entire fleet of one of the current types, & all the clearances from either France or the USA for re-export.
If, on the other hand, he came to me with proposals to improve pilot & ground crew training & retention, & buy some elint & AEW aircraft, I'd thank him warmly & start thinking about funding.
You mean, apart from the better payload/range, better optronics, greater growth potential . . . . ?...
Rafael is better than F-16 in dogfighting maybe because it's more maneuverable but thats where the advantages end. ...
So you really saying that Rafael that is yet to win a contract(Morocco didn't even approve the new sale but this the closest the French ever got to selling this plane)and losing contracts left and right is better than UAE's Block 60/62 with AESA radar and a true Low-Observable engine(has same nozzle tech as on F-35) and 32,500 lbf thrust?You mean, apart from the better payload/range, better optronics, greater growth potential . . . . ?
I thought that the Greeks were replacing the A-7's with Super Hornets?The Greeks are replacing their A7 in the attack role, the scoop for a Rafale sale to Greece is just as good as it was before the F-16 deal...
As for Typhoon order it have been postponed without any further indication of Typhoon sale without a competition...
Not what i have been told by some of them.AegisFC I thought that the Greeks were replacing the A-7's with Super Hornets?
Hmm. You're starting to put words into others mouths. Might I remind you that is very bad behaviour? I didn't say any of that, I merely corrected an erroneous statement by you. I didn't claim Rafale was superior in all respects, or overall, to the F-16E, I merely stated a couple of facts - to which I can add that it has a little more thrust than the F-16E, so I don't know why you brought the thrust up as evidence of F-16E superiority.So you really saying that Rafael that is yet to win a contract(Morocco didn't even approve the new sale but this the closest the French ever got to selling this plane)and losing contracts left and right is better than UAE's Block 60/62 with AESA radar and a true Low-Observable engine(has same nozzle tech as on F-35) and 32,500 lbf thrust?
Sorry, I was talking to BKNO with the thrust specs, he brought about an article that mentioned something about the Rafale's thrust compared to the F-16 as well as saying the Rafale can beat ANY F-16,simple misunderstanding. Which is not true Block 60's seem to be a lot better than the current Rafale. And may i remind most A2A combat involves BVR engagement and only 1 out 10 aerial victories are achieved through dog fights.Hmm. You're starting to put words into others mouths. Might I remind you that is very bad behaviour? I didn't say any of that, I merely corrected an erroneous statement by you. I didn't claim Rafale was superior in all respects, or overall, to the F-16E, I merely stated a couple of facts - to which I can add that it has a little more thrust than the F-16E, so I don't know why you brought the thrust up as evidence of F-16E superiority.
And that's it from me. I'm not into shouting matches. I prefer reasoned debates.
The only missunderstanding there is here is from you; this wasn't an "Article" but Rafale M F1 pilot staments. I tyhink he knows WAY better than you do about it.T-95 Sorry, I was talking to BKNO with the thrust specs, he brought about an article that mentioned something about the Rafale's thrust compared to the F-16 as well as saying the Rafale can beat ANY F-16,simple misunderstanding.
Bring it on:T-95 Which is not true Block 60's seem to be a lot better than the current Rafale. And may i remind most A2A combat involves BVR engagement and only 1 out 10 aerial victories are achieved through dog fights.
Don't get on the offensive i wasn't trying to get you pissed I was just saying that the Rafale isn't better than the Block 60. And why are you getting so defensive about this piece of crap that even Libya wouldn't buy? Are you French? And if it's so great then why dosen't anyone buy it? Maybe cuz it sucks a little bit. And how the hell is gunna buy a 4th generation plane thats in the price range of an F-35? And the pilot that you talking about flew against an F-16C. I'm pretty sure that the F-16E is more than a match for the Rafale.The only missunderstanding there is here is from you; this wasn't an "Article" but Rafale M F1 pilot staments. I tyhink he knows WAY better than you do about it.
As for its TWR ratio there is not even need for a comparison.
Bring it on:
Turning performance are dictated by the TWR and wingload.
That of Rafale are far better than ANY F-16.
Rafale C = 950 kg empy. 46.7 M2 2 X 75 kN.
Rafale M 10.150 kg but it is not comparible being a MARINE version with <> 600 kg extra weight, compare it to an S-H please.
Now SHOW us F-16 Block 60 TWR and wingload for a laugh.
OK sorry but if you follow some of the other topics i post on you'll see that i have some good reasons to thnik so.T-95 Don't get on the offensive i wasn't trying to get you pissed I was just saying that the Rafale isn't better than the Block 60.
Thats too...T-95 Are you French?
I'd like to see this respect recriprocated you see....T-95 Please show a minimum of respect towards other posters and kit of other countries. Otherwise these threads will go bonkers in no time.
/GD
As reliable as a Greek poster in a military forum can be, at least he can read Greek which i can't...contedicavour Could you tell me if the sources sounds reliable ?