personaldesas
Active Member
Alright mate
The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread
personaldesas
Active Member
Okay, and what exactly is your point?
That nobody should support a country’s right to self-determination because other countries have violated it before? That small countries are fair game to invade? That nobody is allowed to criticize an invasion unless every other invasion in history is criticized first?
It is what you wanted to say, not what I read.
personaldesas
Active Member
just read through the rest of the answers here.
If deyhere’s posts over the last few days are the kind of discussion the forum is comfortable letting dominate the thread, then it’s probably not a place where I’m interested in participating much further in the debate.
If deyhere’s posts over the last few days are the kind of discussion the forum is comfortable letting dominate the thread, then it’s probably not a place where I’m interested in participating much further in the debate.
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
Why would the US (or anyone else, for that matter, but Ukraine) would have the “zomg, biolabs” in Ukraine? I do not believe anyone had answered that question yet. It’s been a few years.
Was wandering yesterday why the “biolab” question was again discussed yesterday. Turns out there is a “bombshell”. Turns out from the same people as the last time.
Was wandering yesterday why the “biolab” question was again discussed yesterday. Turns out there is a “bombshell”. Turns out from the same people as the last time.
You were the one who said that the Russians were brotherly I was just showing that this was not true in this case and all the rest of you what you are stating is irrelivant attempt at point scoring.
I have a personal disagreement with any country invading another and if you had bothered to read my previous posts properly with out your tinted glasses on you would have understood this, but understanding things outside of your very biased outlook is not a strong point with you.
As for Russia bring its own kind of freedom, that is total Bull sh-t they invaded to take control which for any country to do to a neighbour is totally unacceptable.
I would recomend that you stop trying to twist posts and ignore what does not suit your aggenda, it is not the sign of an inteligent debater.
am just airing my views like everyone on here, no twisting or anything like that, you and some are just picking on me because you don't like what i said. your backing each other up and asking the same silly questions again and again, when i respond to one, the next one takes over and questions me more aggressively even when they have seen my last response on the topic. that's not a sign of good debaters either.
you support Ukraine, i support Russia, lets have a good intelligent debate. try and keep the same energy and reserve some advice for those that use language like 'fool and you don't know English'. it will improve the debate
You say support Ukraine and you are right because I support the oppressed over the apppresser and I support the invaded over the invader.
A good intelligent debate would be great, however when continually come up with things like BOTHERLY NEIGBOURS they are not, THEY SPEAK THE SAME LANGUAGE they don't A RUSSIAN STYLE of FREEDOM, is not freedom. and then ramble on about other countries not connected and possible concepts yet to happen it is hard for it to be considered to be good debate.
Maybe you should ask Donald Trump to invade GB after all they do speak the same language and are botherly neighbors across the sea and they do have a type of freedom, it all fits.
IMHO no country has the right to invade a peaceful neighbor and you have yet to come up with an intelligent reason for Russia to invade Ukraine that complies with international law and moral thinking.
I would also advise that you read and understand your own advice.
This is just another attempt to twist things to suit your agenda, I have repeatedly said no one has the right to invade their neighbor. You claim not to twist things, but here is a blatant example.
Another comes to mind, Two wrongs don't make a right
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The west has lost all moral right to decide who is wrong and who is right. you support Ukraine because you feel they are oppressed, that's your opinion, i support Russia because i feel that NATO expansion is bad and will cause instability in the neighbourhood. and NATO is encroaching on Russia's spear of influence, that's my own opinion.
why do i have to be talked to like some kind of idiot because my opinion and yours don't see eye to eye? these things about speaking the same language and neighbourly brother is me responding to what i was asked by others on here, somebody said they are arming Ukraine because they don't want them to speak Russian and i responded, they already speak Russian. see how your trying to spin it. keep your opinion let me keep mine, you have no moral edge over me. no country has the right to invade another, yes, i agree but try go say that to the west with the same energy.
this is double standard hypocrisy.
rsemmes
Active Member
What I wanted to say but I didn't say?
What I wanted to say according to you?
What you want me to say but I didn't?
Me, I can only read the posts, not what I want them to say.
I have to say what I already said to Hoover, read again...
'When "NATO" decided that Ukraine was not going to be swallowed in a weekend. On the other hand, Russia was never a "partner", more like the competition.
The "attempt" is History and not "the West".'
Your "translation" is quite... "creative".
From...
'I'm calling it "NATO": "different countries supporting different projects at different levels".'
KipPotapych
Well-Known Member
Pretty sure he is talking for “Rob C”, not the west. And he most certainly has the right to make all kinds of judgements with regard to any issue he chooses.
I don’t think it’s because your opinion is different, it’s due to your arguments, like the 50/50 stuff, etc. Those make no sense. Who you support, I couldn’t care less.
The reality is that NATO expansion has been caused by Russia it's self . Countries are not forced to join NATO they have to apply and meet certain criteria, then have the approval of all of the members. They apply because of a fear of Russia brought on by previous multiple Russian actions. So the reality is that the expansion of NATO (a defensive organisation)has been accelerated by Russia it's self and it's actions and the reason it has expanded into previous soviet areas us that the people in these areas don't want to be tied to Russia and are fearful of Russia. It is notable that both Finland and Sweden joined due to the invasion of Ukraine neither had shown any interest in joining prior to this.
I am glad to see you agree that no one has the right to invade another, however lumping all the west together is incorrect as the majority of the countries that have a western culture have not invaded anyone and in recent times have condemned those countries that have. You need to name the countries you refer to not blanket condemn the innocent with the guilty.
No you are the one spinning it, you clearly said that that they spoke Russian when they don't and you were trying to say that they should just give in to the Russians because of this and that the Russians were just brotherly neighbors.
Just to clear something ,I support Ukraine because it was invaded by Russia and even though you say that you agree that no country has the right to invade another it seems that Russia is ok to invade Ukraine and then you keep on about double standards. First of all look at yourself and remember two wrongs do not make a right.
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You always say what you want to say and it is the same warped messages every single time, no change, no deviation every single post says the sand old thing.
how does the 50 50 stuff make no sense? so what, you don't correct me if you feel am wrong, you get verbally aggressive? a lot of what they say, make no sense too, i just post mine and move on, i have read the thread very well, a few guys here have a habit of of ganging up on anyone that has a different opinion from them, and bully them trying to look for the slightest fault in what they post, meanwhile some of them just post raw propaganda without backlash, somebody openly said i was being flammed on here. i don't care if you support Ukraine, lets talk facts on the ground. stop thinking you have the moral high ground because i support Russia. Russia invaded Ukraine so what? is Ukraine the first country in history to be invaded?
Rob c is talking for him self, allow me to talk for my self, he clearly has issues with what i said and am responding to him
Some big lies is this statement, NATO expansion wasn't caused by Russia, that's a big lie, NATO is not a defensive organisation, another big lie.
2008 Bucharest summit, NATO welcomed the the aspirations of Ukraine and Georgia to join and issued a political declaration affirming that they will become members in future. tell me, what countries did Russia attack before 2008 for Ukraine and Georgia to want to join NATO? or is it because of their soviet past? at the time, Ukraine was spilt down the middle, western Ukraine wants NATO while Ukrainians in the east of the country wanted close ties with Russia, in my opinion, NATO is an expansionist imperialist organisation, expanding to Russian borders to curtail Russia's military growth and to surround Russia so no surprises about Sweden and Finland. and there's nothing defensive about NATO, just ask Libya, they will tell you
rsemmes
Active Member
Like, instead of reality, the "warped message" the western media is selling that Ukraine hits targets and Russia kills civilians?
I see your point now.
Edit.
I guess you would enjoy reading this instead, you just need to avoid pointing out that, whatever is happening to Russia, is happening to Ukraine; only that Ukraine is the one without money to fight the war.
How Ukraine Has Turned the Tide
Resilience, technology, and European support have put Russia on the back foot.
foreignpolicy.com
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your from New Zealand right, you are all in the same boat, you vote together at the UN, you sanction people together, your part of these 50 countries supporting Ukraine with arms and money to fight Russia, you turn a blind eye when your allies are wrong but you like to punish Russia, sorry mate, serious double standards.
did you sanction US on any of the wrong invasions they carried out? why not? did you condemn the killing of Iranian school girls by a US missile strike. no you didn't. why?
you also belong to the five eyes alliance am not surprised that the only invasion that troubles you is the Russian one
New Zealand still has no position on the strike that killed 100 Iranian school children
More than five weeks on from a deadly bombing of a primary school in Iran, Prime Minister Christopher Luxon has said New Zealand does not have a position on it.
www.stuff.co.nz
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get your facts right before you post, Zelensky's mothers tongue is Russian, in 2001 the Ukraine official census declared that 29.6% of Ukraine spoke Russian, in 2021 the census declared the 26% spoke Russian, and yes, fight this war with your brother because of NATO is very stupid. Ukraine will learn as time goes on. i support Russia because somebody has to put an end to this NATO and western madness of feeling that they own the world and they can invade anybody they like and frame it how they like. Russia is defending it's national security.
you need to get down from that moral high horse so you can see clearly