The Russian-Ukrainian War Thread

[Redshift]

What point of the Istanbul negotiations was Ukraine not "remaining an independent political entity"? Or in any other of the negotiations?
Crimea is still Russia, can Russia claim to have won the war? "??? Are you being serious ?" And I am not saying that he is serious, mind.

Can Germany do anything regarding the terrorist attack carried out by Ukraine against its energy supply?
Should the West start sending missiles to Iran? For its right to defend itself, I mean. Maybe to Lebanon?
So many questions... And so easy to find one simple answer to satisfy yourself...

One thing is true, there is no "domestic pressure" in Ukraine (only deserters), they are out of the country. Sweden wants to kick them (men) back to Ukraine.

Ukraine war briefing: Ukrainian men should be turned back from EU to fight, says Swedish minister

‘The war needs to be fought and won – essential more men stay’ in Ukraine, says Johan Forssell; Zelenskyy writes open letter to Putin. What we know on day 1,563

www.theguardian.com

To summarise.

"The west" should do nothing.

 

[swerve]

its just my opinion and i am open to learning.

Yes, Ukraine makes all this equipment you listed and more but where did they get the money from? Ukraine is broke and very corrupt, Andriy Yermak, Zelenskys former chief of staff and right hand man was arrested for money laundering, that says it all.
i will bet my last that most of these production lines you mention are being manned by westerners, if not Ukrainians will steal all of the money and nothing will be done.

Zelensky's ex-chief of staff in court as Ukraine corruption probe escalates

Andriy Yermak was named by Ukraine's two anti-corruption agencies as a suspect in a money-laundering scheme.

www.bbc.co.uk

Russia pretends that it doesn't see that the extend of western support to Ukraine is enormous, but if you follow Russian media, you will see that Putin is coming under some serious pressure to act directly against western supporters and thats really bad.
for now Kirill Dmitriev is still negotiating building a bridge from Chukotka to Alaska, maybe that will bring peace

Putin envoy says U.S., Russia will build Chukotka–Alaska tunnel

Kirill Dmitriev, a special envoy of Russian dictator Vladimir Putin and head of the Russian Direct Investment Fund, said on June 5, that Russia and the United States will sign an agreement to begin designing a tunnel between Chukotka and Alaska.

english.nv.ua

"i will bet my last that most of these production lines you mention are being manned by westerners, if not Ukrainians will steal all of the money and nothing will be done."
You lost that bet before you made it. The production lines have been running for a long time, & are entirely Ukrainian. They've produced, & are continuing to produce, very large numbers of drones, & quite large numbers of other weapons - which are being used. It's not a matter of debate, but solidly established fact.

Westerners aren't working in Ukraine. Why would they? It's dangerous & the pay's low.

Again, you hold a false opinion despite knowing nothing about the topic.

Yes, Ukraine suffers from corruption. It used to be estimated to be even more corrupt than Russia. But for quite a long time those who look deepest into these things have been saying it's getting less corrupt, & Russia's been going the other way, & It's now much less corrupt than Russia. As for Yermak - he's being investigated. What's happening in Russia?

A bridge from Chukotka to Alaska? That's insane. I can only think of one use for such a project, i.e. to corruptly siphon off money for Putin's cronies. A bridge, tunnel, or combination is technically feasible. There are intermediate islands, & the water's not too deep. But there's nothing either side to connect to. Linking it to places that might generate traffic for it would cost trillions. Lunacy!

 

[vikingatespam]

What point of the Istanbul negotiations was Ukraine not "remaining an independent political entity"? Or in any other of the negotiations?
Crimea is still Russia, can Russia claim to have won the war? "??? Are you being serious ?" And I am not saying that he is serious, mind.

Can Germany do anything regarding the terrorist attack carried out by Ukraine against its energy supply?
Should the West start sending missiles to Iran? For its right to defend itself, I mean. Maybe to Lebanon?
So many questions... And so easy to find one simple answer to satisfy yourself...

One thing is true, there is no "domestic pressure" in Ukraine (only deserters), they are out of the country. Sweden wants to kick them (men) back to Ukraine.

Ukraine war briefing: Ukrainian men should be turned back from EU to fight, says Swedish minister

‘The war needs to be fought and won – essential more men stay’ in Ukraine, says Johan Forssell; Zelenskyy writes open letter to Putin. What we know on day 1,563

www.theguardian.com

That was an amazing "stream of consciousness" post, that defies context and logic. Do you care to format that into something comprehensible ?

 

[deyhere]

Besides the questionable statement, “Only boots on the ground” is a strange way to dismiss the people paying the highest price in this war.

what's questionable about this statement, paying the prize to protect EU or NATO?

 

[rsemmes]

To summarise.

"The west" should do nothing.

To summarize, the West should help Iran in his right to self-defence?
Maybe?

 

[deyhere]

"Free stuff is bad" and "lose dignity and respect" sounds like something from Moscow. This does not constitute a serious argument.

How much "free" is too much ? Should the west stop sending air defense missiles ?

UKR is winning the war right now, by remaining an independant political entity. That isnt the same as triumphantly marching into Moscow, but it is a victory never the less.

Ukraine is not winning the war by any margin, just look at the battle field, if things continue like this for another 4 years, Ukraine is done.

 

[deyhere]

Germany and Japan were broke in 1945 , but managed to continue war production. Th UKR domestic military production is well known.



Corruption problems ? Sure. You know which country is more corrupt ? Russia. And Ukraine, unlike Russia, is actually taking steps to reduce corruption. Your example of Yermak being arrested shows that.



Your last...ruble ? If you think there are hordes of British, French and Germans on Ukrainain production lines, I guess you also think NATO generals are being killed every time in RU missile strikes.

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/russia-killed-nine-nato-officers-and-dozens-of-ukrainian-soldiers-in-chernihiv/

RU isnt pretending....they just cant do anything about it. The domestic pressure Putin is coming under, is stop stop the war.



??? Are you being serious ?

Germany and Japan were broke in 1945 , but managed to continue war production. Th UKR domestic military production is well known.



Corruption problems ? Sure. You know which country is more corrupt ? Russia. And Ukraine, unlike Russia, is actually taking steps to reduce corruption. Your example of Yermak being arrested shows that.



Your last...ruble ? If you think there are hordes of British, French and Germans on Ukrainain production lines, I guess you also think NATO generals are being killed every time in RU missile strikes.

https://euvsdisinfo.eu/report/russia-killed-nine-nato-officers-and-dozens-of-ukrainian-soldiers-in-chernihiv/

RU isnt pretending....they just cant do anything about it. The domestic pressure Putin is coming under, is stop stop the war.



??? Are you being serious ?

Russia is corrupt, no doubt, i wouldn't give them my money by any chance, Ukraine is also very corrupt, why give them all that money? don't make sense excerpt your also stealing with them.

oh yes, am dead serious, kirill dmitriev has been talking about building a tunnel linking Russia to US, he made these statements again yesterday at the st petersburg economic forum.

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

the peace tunnel

 

[deyhere]

"i will bet my last that most of these production lines you mention are being manned by westerners, if not Ukrainians will steal all of the money and nothing will be done."
You lost that bet before you made it. The production lines have been running for a long time, & are entirely Ukrainian. They've produced, & are continuing to produce, very large numbers of drones, & quite large numbers of other weapons - which are being used. It's not a matter of debate, but solidly established fact.

Westerners aren't working in Ukraine. Why would they? It's dangerous & the pay's low.

Again, you hold a false opinion despite knowing nothing about the topic.

Yes, Ukraine suffers from corruption. It used to be estimated to be even more corrupt than Russia. But for quite a long time those who look deepest into these things have been saying it's getting less corrupt, & Russia's been going the other way, & It's now much less corrupt than Russia. As for Yermak - he's being investigated. What's happening in Russia?

A bridge from Chukotka to Alaska? That's insane. I can only think of one use for such a project, i.e. to corruptly siphon off money for Putin's cronies. A bridge, tunnel, or combination is technically feasible. There are intermediate islands, & the water's not too deep. But there's nothing either side to connect to. Linking it to places that might generate traffic for it would cost trillions. Lunacy!

you have not proven my opinion false but you keep saying i know nothing about the topic, where does Ukraine get money from? intelligence? weaponry? advice? missiles? who pays the civil servants? look at anthony bliken openly planning Ukraine offensive

 

[Hoover]

Ukraine is not winning the war by any margin, just look at the battle field, if things continue like this for another 4 years, Ukraine is done.

Oh yes. That is the story the Russians tell us for 5 years now.

 

[rsemmes]

Maybe we have to wait until Ukraine sinks a cruise ship before triggering Article 5.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/marine-drone-self-detonates-romanian-black-sea-port-defence-ministry-says-2026-06-05/

Obviously the Nord Stream was not enough.

 

[rsemmes]

That was an amazing "stream of consciousness" post, that defies context and logic. Do you care to format that into something comprehensible ?

Did you read your own points?

 

[vikingatespam]

Ukraine is not winning the war by any margin, just look at the battle field, if things continue like this for another 4 years, Ukraine is done.

Ukraine is not winning the war by any margin, just look at the battle field, if things continue like this into 2023, Ukraine is done
Ukraine is not winning the war by any margin, just look at the battle field, if things continue like this into 2024, Ukraine is done
Ukraine is not winning the war by any margin, just look at the battle field, if things continue like this into 2025, Ukraine is done
Ukraine is not winning the war by any margin, just look at the battle field, if things continue like this into 2026, Ukraine is done

UKR can stop fighting and be another vassal state of RU any time it wants. They choose otherwise.

I eagerly await the tired response that many UKR have fled the conflict.

 

[vikingatespam]

To summarize, the West should help Iran in his right to self-defence?
Maybe?

Even the most casual reader will understand the situational moral differences between UKR and Iran. Im sure you do, too.

 

[vikingatespam]

snip

Use the "Preview" before you post, to help the formatting.

 

[vikingatespam]

Did you read your own points?

The key is that I try and read other peoples posts, you do not, nor are you willing to try and provide proper context for the different points.

But you already know that. You could of taken the time to properly format your post in question so it could foster a proper exchange of view points, as requested, but instead....you just post nothing of consequence.

When, for example, have you recently posted anything of informational value, such as my recent posts on the strike on the Boikiy ?

You are of course free to post as you see fit. I am not a moderator. It is not my job to force you to be relevant.

 

[Vanquish]

To summarize, the West should help Iran in his right to self-defence?
Maybe?

Why should the west support Iran a terrorist state much like Russia?

 

[Vanquish]

Ukraine is not winning the war by any margin, just look at the battle field, if things continue like this for another 4 years, Ukraine is done.

Just 4 years? Not another 5 years maybe? After another 5 years do we call Russia the winner just for the perseverance award.

 

[Vanquish]

Maybe we have to wait until Ukraine sinks a cruise ship before triggering Article 5.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aerospace-defense/marine-drone-self-detonates-romanian-black-sea-port-defence-ministry-says-2026-06-05/

Obviously the Nord Stream was not enough.

What is the deal with Nord Stream? Any country making money or potentially making money for Russia should be cut off. European countries sucking off the Russian tit deserve to suffer. Certainly Ukraine has suffered worse on any given day since Russia's most recent Imperialist misadventures began than any European country.

 

[KipPotapych]

What is the deal with Nord Stream? Any country making money or potentially making money for Russia should be cut off. European countries sucking off the Russian tit deserve to suffer. Certainly Ukraine has suffered worse on any given day since Russia's most recent Imperialist misadventures began than any European country.

The deal with the Nord Stream is that the first pipe is (don’t quote me on the numbers, they are from memory) owned by: 51% Russia, 31% Germany, 9% France and Netherlands, each. The second pipe is fully Russian owned, unless I am mistaken. Therefore, it was a direct attack on Euro critical infrastructure, as well as NATO members’ infrastructure. Regardless of ownership even, the attack was on infrastructure that was critical to the livelihood of the Euros and NATO allies, environmental and financial damage to the aforementioned parties, etc. NATO’s anger at the time was apparent. From the horse’s mouth:

The NATO Invitees associate themselves with this Statement.

1. The damage to the Nordstream 1 and Nordstream 2 pipelines in international waters in the Baltic Sea is of deep concern. All currently available information indicates that this is the result of deliberate, reckless, and irresponsible acts of sabotage. These leaks are causing risks to shipping and substantial environmental damage. We support the investigations underway to determine the origin of the damage.
2. We, as Allies, have committed to prepare for, deter and defend against the coercive use of energy and other hybrid tactics by state and non-state actors. Any deliberate attack against Allies’ critical infrastructure would be met with a united and determined response.

Statement by the North Atlantic Council on the damage to gas pipelines

The NATO Invitees associate themselves with this Statement.

www.nato.int

The fact that people think it is fine and, moreover, “well-deserved” is quite mind boggling. First of all, it is not up to me or you to decide who deserves what and decisions of any sovereign state. Your thought process is completely bonkers, in my opinion. Deserve to suffer because Ukraine suffered more? Laughing. What the hell does that even mean? Especially in the context of providing basically all the aid to the very Ukraine nowadays. There is certainly nothing wrong with Russia, or anyone else, for that matter, engaging in sabotage activities on critical and other infrastructure in the Eurozone and beyond because… well, the precedent had been set and they deserve to suffer anyway.

It is also quite a high horse to talk from energy-rich Canada about how anyone satisfies their energy needs… while refusing to implement energy projects (beneficial to Canada) that would help to relieve the pressure and lower the associated costs for those “deserving to suffer”.

I expect those who have this train of thought not to get outraged or complain any time some critical cables get cut, an airport somewhere has to shut down, or any other event involving a foreign state that feels righteous and adventurous enough to interdict and otherwise get involved in the internal matters of any ally. After all, that third party has its reasons and is certainly in the right due to suffering or any other reason.

Amazing stuff, if you ask me.

 

[Vanquish]

The deal with the Nord Stream is that the first pipe is (don’t quote me on the numbers, they are from memory) owned by: 51% Russia, 31% Germany, 9% France and Netherlands, each. The second pipe is fully Russian owned, unless I am mistaken. Therefore, it was a direct attack on Euro critical infrastructure, as well as NATO members’ infrastructure. Regardless of ownership even, the attack was on infrastructure that was critical to the livelihood of the Euros and NATO allies, environmental and financial damage to the aforementioned parties, etc. NATO’s anger at the time was apparent. From the horse’s mouth:

The NATO Invitees associate themselves with this Statement.

1. The damage to the Nordstream 1 and Nordstream 2 pipelines in international waters in the Baltic Sea is of deep concern. All currently available information indicates that this is the result of deliberate, reckless, and irresponsible acts of sabotage. These leaks are causing risks to shipping and substantial environmental damage. We support the investigations underway to determine the origin of the damage.
2. We, as Allies, have committed to prepare for, deter and defend against the coercive use of energy and other hybrid tactics by state and non-state actors. Any deliberate attack against Allies’ critical infrastructure would be met with a united and determined response.

Statement by the North Atlantic Council on the damage to gas pipelines

The NATO Invitees associate themselves with this Statement.

www.nato.int

The fact that people think it is fine and, moreover, “well-deserved” is quite mind boggling. First of all, it is not up to me or you to decide who deserves what and decisions of any sovereign state. Your thought process is completely bonkers, in my opinion. Deserve to suffer because Ukraine suffered more? Laughing. What the hell does that even mean? Especially in the context of providing basically all the aid to the very Ukraine nowadays. There is certainly nothing wrong with Russia, or anyone else, for that matter, engaging in sabotage activities on critical and other infrastructure in the Eurozone and beyond because… well, the precedent had been set and they deserve to suffer anyway.

It is also quite a high horse to talk from energy-rich Canada about how anyone satisfies their energy needs… while refusing to implement energy projects (beneficial to Canada) that would help to relieve the pressure and lower the associated costs for those “deserving to suffer”.

I expect those who have this train of thought not to get outraged or complain any time some critical cables get cut, an airport somewhere has to shut down, or any other event involving a foreign state that feels righteous and adventurous enough to interdict and otherwise get involved in the internal matters of any ally. After all, that third party has its reasons and is certainly in the right due to suffering or any other reason.

Amazing stuff, if you ask me.

First of all, it is not up to me or you to decide who deserves what and decisions of any sovereign state. You answered your own statement. It is not up to you what Ukraine determines it needs to do to defend it's national sovereignty. If Ukraine feels that allowing Russia to profit in any way that allows it to prolong it's imperalist ambitions to the detriment of Ukraines very survival then they are absolutley in their right to hold an intervention.