The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

[StobieWan]

Except that Ajax is so heavily modified that it might have been easier to start from scratch. Or, of course, buy something close to what the British army wanted & just put in UK comms & a BV.

That's very much my point -it *should* have been a straight add-to-cart experience but. as you say, a bunch of requirements got added, to the point where, really, it was a bespoke item. Risk management appears to have been poor and I can think of other projects (cough:MRA4) that have underlined it.

Thing is, the DIP being unveiled apparently doesn't make much difference right now, as no-one is making any decisions til the new PM is selected - so really, Starmer hasn't done anyone any favours by producing the DIP during his last few months.

We'll see what stands or falls once we have a new PM.

If these changes do go through, I'm genuinely worried that there's an enormous amount of risk with unproven tech that makes Type 45 look pedestrian.

 

[swerve]

The MoD appears to be addicted to heavy & ill thought out customisation of what should be OTS buys, with appallingly bad risk management, e.g. the Chinook fiasco, where a "cost-cutting" customisation rendered the batch if was applied to unusable, & cost a bloody fortune. Project Cerberus is another one. Should have been a quick refurb of AEW kit from Sea Kings & fit to Merlins, so we had onboard AEW pending a long term solution which we could take our time over . . . and it turned into yet another immensely expensive long-drawn-out fiasco, with equipment pretty much obsolete by the time it entered service & retirement scheduled for a few years afterwards.

Management of maintenance is extraordinarily bad, too. How many ships have been refitted, only to be retired?

 

[koxinga]

No more 3 + 3 MRSS (too expensive) and instead, 4 x 15k ton amphibous ships of unknown configuration (through deck LHA/LHD type or LPD style).

A 15k ton vessel would point towards a variant of the Enforcer series (Enforcer 15628) from Damen rather than the smaller MPSS for Portugal, although a new design is also a possibility. The original MRSS specs would have featured a robust self-defense capability if I recall.

Seems like a downgrade to me from a fleet size/# perspective from:
1 x HMS Ocean LHA
2 x Albion-class LPD
3 x Bay-class LPD
1 x RFA Argus

New UK-Netherlands maritime partnership set to strengthen NATO and back UK shipbuilding

British and Dutch forces are set to be equipped with new amphibious transport ships under a new maritime partnership.

www.gov.uk

UK and Netherlands Sign £2.4 Billion Deal for Next-Gen Amphibious Ships

The UK and Netherlands have signed a landmark £2.4 billion agreement to build eight next-generation, 15,000-ton amphibious transport ships optimized for hybrid drone warfare.

www.navalnews.com

 

[swerve]

Ocean was decommissioned eight years ago & sold to Brazil.
Albion was out of service 2011-18, then "reduced readiness" until retired last year.
Bulwark was in "extended readiness" from 2017 to 2020, then in refit, until sold to Brazil in 2025.
Argus was worn out to the point she was officially"unsafe to sail".

Ocean's LPH role is now supposed to be covered by the aircraft carriers, each of which is the same tonnage as all three Invincible class carriers combined. That leaves the four new ships replacing the three Bay class LSDs, which are 16,000 tons each.

We've already had the downgrading of the amphibious fleet. This could be a slight upgrading of what's left.

 

[StobieWan]

The MoD appears to be addicted to heavy & ill thought out customisation of what should be OTS buys, with appallingly bad risk management, e.g. the Chinook fiasco, where a "cost-cutting" customisation rendered the batch if was applied to unusable, & cost a bloody fortune. Project Cerberus is another one. Should have been a quick refurb of AEW kit from Sea Kings & fit to Merlins, so we had onboard AEW pending a long term solution which we could take our time over . . . and it turned into yet another immensely expensive long-drawn-out fiasco, with equipment pretty much obsolete by the time it entered service & retirement scheduled for a few years afterwards.

Management of maintenance is extraordinarily bad, too. How many ships have been refitted, only to be retired?

Oh lord! I'd forgotten about chinook! Literally, there's an end user with the same requirements already flying a viable solution but nooo, let's get ourselves some kit we can't get certified for VFR OPS in the UK then park them in a hangar for a decade. I actually passed on of them being moved on a low loader a long while back, presumably for their long awaited refit.