exellent news a LONG TIME COMMING also all the ports are staying open huzzar
The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
- Start date
This is really good news, at last.
The video they issued with the press release suggests that MASC is still going to be provided by Sea Kings. I hope that really isn't the case
The video is about 18 months old, apparently, & since no decision had been made, why not just show the current helciopters?
There's talk of the Thales Cerberus system being tried out on a V-22 in the near future. That's an option.
now that is intersting that the UK project when't ahead when once it was 3 hulls or nothing now the UK is going ahead of the French. Also it was good to hear that the rubbish of worksharing the carriers was binnied.
Sarko meant to deside the future of PA2 in 2008
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com...n-defense-after-electoral-stumble-03401/#more
also even if the desion in 2008 it be very close to the SLEP of CdG. it would be a struggle to get in servise in time
but it could be cut as the french are softening on defence sinse the parlimentery elections
and loweing the genral percentage of defence to under 2%
I almost wish BKNO was not banned at this stage as he made quite a few statements claiming the French were being held up by the UK in respect of PA2 (along with a few other nationliastic comments). That is now proven beyond doubt to be rubbish.
A very good result for the RN and lets hope they cut steel soon.
Great news!
Here is a news release from the Australian:
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,22136593-1702,00.html
IMHO this is arguably the best thing that has happened for the RN since the end of WW2. It will ensure that the RN remains a first class naval power.
Cheers
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
The Times also commented that defence officials say the seventh and eight Type-45 destroyers are still being planned for. I think Des Browne also commented that they were required, but that he wasn't in a position to make an announcement that day.
The fact they weren't cancelled all together is more good news.
The fact they weren't cancelled all together is more good news.
According to the Telegraph:
"It also appeared that the Navy will receive all eight of the advanced anti-air Type 45 destroyers that will be vital in protecting the carriers, defence sources said. But they did not give full backing to the third tranche of 88 RAF Eurofighter Typhoons, suggesting that the £60 million aircraft might be sacrificed.
The cancelling of the third tranche of 88 Eurofighters will not be a great loss assuming we get enough F35's. I would rather see the latter and a much need replacement of the RM lift with Merlin.
"It also appeared that the Navy will receive all eight of the advanced anti-air Type 45 destroyers that will be vital in protecting the carriers, defence sources said. But they did not give full backing to the third tranche of 88 RAF Eurofighter Typhoons, suggesting that the £60 million aircraft might be sacrificed.
The cancelling of the third tranche of 88 Eurofighters will not be a great loss assuming we get enough F35's. I would rather see the latter and a much need replacement of the RM lift with Merlin.
Apart from France, Russia and perhaps China, who will build their own, I think the design is too large and expensive for other 'carrier' navies wanting and able to afford new vessels.
Great to see that Type 45 destroyers number 7 and 8 are still planned. I agree about the urgency of new Merlins for the RMs and I would also like to see additional F-35Bs to enable each carrier to operate to its full potential.
At this stage, however, I am just mighty pleased with what was included in today's announcement.
Cheers
Agreed, especially as the RAF was only planning to establish 7 Eurofighter squadrons and put the balance of the aircraft (the equivalent of slightly more than the entire 3rd trance) on storage and rotate them through the fleet to extend service life.
This way the RAF can concentrate on what's important now rather than spending money as a hedge against a mythical air-to-air enemy who might arrive in 25 years time. And they still have enough aircraft to establish the 7 squadrons with a 25year+ lifespan.
WillS
Super Nimrod
New Member
Is there not a contractual obligation to buy all 232 ? I am sure I have read this from various sources in recent years 
same i herd the same thing about T3 Typhoons and how they were in the contractIs there not a contractual obligation to buy all 232 ? I am sure I have read this from various sources in recent years
also talking of missed people i miss Overlander saying how the RN would be overtaken by every European contriey from Spain to Belgium* great news about the T45 [i wonder about they name them]
*artistic license
Is there not a contractual obligation to buy all 232 ? I am sure I have read this from various sources in recent years
As far as I'm aware the project is owned by the participating nations. If all agree to cancel their third tranches then they cannot be forced to buy. If only one nation cancelled then there'd be a problem as it would mess up the manufacturing work allocation.
Given that Germany, Spain and (especially) Italy are all having defense budget problems, I think an all-party cancellation is realistic. Especially if the blow to manufacturing jobs was cushioned by a large export order (like one to Saudi Arabia).
I can't help but suspect that the flak that the UK government is proving itself willing to take over investigations into dodgy Saudi arms deals is tied to their desire to sell Eurofighters to them to cushion the jobs blow.
The alternative route might be for the RAF to 'buy' its third trance and then immediately sell them on to Saudi Arabia.
WillS
The participating nations own the project, but they have contractual obligations both to each other (which means any variations to contracts must be agreed by all of them), & to the manufacturers. T3 hasn't yet been ordered, but I think it'd cost something, even if all the buyers cancelled.
Janes reports that the participating countries have asked the manufacturers for prices for a number of options for T3, not including complete cancellation. They do include reducing the number, buying the same number over a longer timescale, & offering some early models for sale to help fund T3.
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
I doubt that all 88 would be cancelled. It appears participating states want to reduce Tranche 3, not axe it completely. This would still tie the UK to buying some, as it would incur penalties if it couldn't agree a reduction with those other countries. However any reduction would save a considerable amount of money.
I think too many were ordered at first, so a modest reduction - of say around 32 - would make things more sensible. We'd still have 200 Typhoons, with scope for ordering more F-35s. If necessary more Typhoons could be ordered in the future.
I hope the Telegraph is right when it says the last two Type-45s will be ordered at some point - the Royal Navy would be stretched to make just six do the job.
Yes, thinking about it I'm sure you're right. Pity, must've been wishful thinking on my part
WillS
I am not confident the T-3 batch will suffer or suffer significantly. To be honest i am more concerned about the F-35 purchase numbers, which presently stand at 138 F-35B. Of course these will be organized like a joint harrier force. However, i am curious how many F-35 squardons will be soley FAA, anyone have any idea? Also, the cross trained RAF pilots can exspect frequent deployments on the forthcoming carriers which could lead to moral problems.
8 type 45s would be the minimum requirment. However, i am not confindent we'd see anymore after 8 are built if indeed the number reachs 8.
I hope the next future surface combatant the RN are planning has some real firepower. However, i see the RN with a british 'verison' of FREMM.
thought please
8 type 45s would be the minimum requirment. However, i am not confindent we'd see anymore after 8 are built if indeed the number reachs 8.
I hope the next future surface combatant the RN are planning has some real firepower. However, i see the RN with a british 'verison' of FREMM.
thought please
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
The last reports on the matter suggested all the partners were feeling a pinch in their budgets as a result of Tranche 3. That would suggest they are willing to reduce it - that doesn't mean they want to slash it. We shall see.
8 would be fine. Sure we'd love to see 12, but 8 would be enough.
I don't think the Royal Navy will go down the FREMM route. Maybe if the Type-23s needed replacing right now, it would have been a strong possibility. But I think they'll be able to carry on through the next decade. By then FREMM might look a little dated.
The S2C2 project was quite significant, in that it proposed different types of ships to fit different roles. This is something that will look attractive to the Royal Navy IMHO. A number of smaller vessels to carry out policing and patrol activities (C3), leaving 1-2 classes of bigger ships (C1 & C2) able to carry out operations in more dangerous areas. C1 would be a sort of cruiser (not as big as the USN types) and may well use the Type-45 hull as a baseline. It would probably have cruise missiles, as well as Harpoons, Aster 15 missiles (or something else for self-defence, but more modern than Seawolf) and helicopter-launched torpedoes. C2 would be more "frigate-like", but still a capable escort.