The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates

Systems Adict said:
FYI...

From what I can recall from a conversation I had while on a visit to one of the Bay's last year, rumor control had it that in late 2005 / early 2006, this was a hot topic within the RN, as 3 of the Bay class where still being completed.

It was suggested that Lyme Bay, the last of the 2 Bay's built at Swan Hunter (and subsequently finished at BAE's Govan shipyard), was the prime candidate for this "conversion", as all it would take was some additional cash to fund it.

However, the powers decreed that it was more appropriate to have the amphib capability.


In fairness, anyone I've spoken to from within the RFA or the RN who's had any dealings with the Bay's is "highly impressed" with the flexibility & capability. In certain areas the capability is beyond the original spec / idea of how the ships would operate.


As for the hospital ship, could this be incorporated into the MARS program ??


Systems Adict
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the bay's would make a good replacement although i would prefer a full deck. rather than just the back of the ship like Bay and Argus class if the Bays were used as the design basis i would like to be lengthened and weigh about the same as Argus about 28,000 tons.
 
Neil said

however when the new carriers enter service it will and should be ABSOLUTELY UNACCEPTABLE.. that the 65 000 ton, £3.9 billion...... £3.9 billion!!!!!!!! vessels go to sea without an airgroup.. due to pure lack of government support..
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Don't worry Neil they will spin it as "the RN is now operating the worlds largest and most advanced LPH" :D :rolleyes: :onfloorl: :nutkick
 
swerve said:
Would be very foolish to spend a fortune on the carriers & skimp on the aircraft for them.
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Agreed!

At present I think there is a danger of a repeat of what happened when the Invincible class first entered service and their airgroups consisted of just 5 Sea Harriers and 9 Sea Kings. It took the Falklands War to get the fixed wing component of airgroups up to something respectable and also to add an AEW capability.

IMO, the suggestion being made that Queen Elizabeth and POW might be deployed with as few as 9 F-35B's in their airgroups is deplorable.

Tas
 
the sad reality is that the fixed wing componet of the r.n. is not at the best situation, the french navy has the aeronavale with a strong component and if it,s necessary the charles de gaulle can go to the sea with 40 rafales and super etendard in a crisis, but even more sad it,s to think that the new 2 future carriers can go to the sea with 9 or 10 f 35,s this would be totally ridiculous to spend so much money in these ships and only to exploit the 30 % of its potential, it remains to be seen if these 2 new carriers we don,t see in the future with only 1 in active service and the other mothballed, in reserve or even 1 of them sold to emerging countries such as china or india.
 
overlander said:
even more sad it,s to think that the new 2 future carriers can go to the sea with 9 or 10 f 35,s this would be totally ridiculous to spend so much money in these ships and only to exploit the 30 % of its potential
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It is highly unlikely they would go into a conflict with so few planes.

it remains to be seen if these 2 new carriers we don,t see in the future with only 1 in active service and the other mothballed, in reserve or even 1 of them sold to emerging countries such as china or india.
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Whatever you're smoking, I could do with some. :rolleyes:

Nothing is ever certain, but when it comes to defence procurement I would say that the carriers are as safe as they could be. Contracts are being handed out and both the top political parties are committed to the project.

The idea of selling them to India or China is absurd. India is building its own carriers. We would never sell aircraft carriers to China because of the way it would upset the balance of power in Asia and annoy the US and Japan. It would also go against the EU arms embargo which won't be lifted in the foreseeable future.

Given such daft comments I honestly question your knowledge of military matters or your motives - you're either ignorant or trying to talk the Royal Navy down.
 
"Although each CVF could embark and operate all 36 front-line F-35B’s, the suspicion from recent experience is that even 9 will be hard to find on a regular basis."
Quote from Beedall's site
 
MK your glass is obviously half full and you have voted for the shower that currently rule us.Only time will tell if your optimism was well placed,and I hope it is,but with the current fashion for labour promising the impossible I don't think it will happen.
I respect Beedall's analysis over yours and have utmost faith in him.
 
Musashi_kenshin said:
It is highly unlikely they would go into a conflict with so few planes.



Whatever you're smoking, I could do with some. :rolleyes:

Nothing is ever certain, but when it comes to defence procurement I would say that the carriers are as safe as they could be. Contracts are being handed out and both the top political parties are committed to the project.

The idea of selling them to India or China is absurd. India is building its own carriers. We would never sell aircraft carriers to China because of the way it would upset the balance of power in Asia and annoy the US and Japan. It would also go against the EU arms embargo which won't be lifted in the foreseeable future.

Given such daft comments I honestly question your knowledge of military matters or your motives - you're either ignorant or trying to talk the Royal Navy down.
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i don.t try to talk the royal navy down, i don,t see of course that these hulls are going to be sold in the near future i mean that perhaps when these ships are 5 or 10 years in active service maybe another stupid government go ahead with further cuts and sell 1 of them or maybe if they are not exploit to a full potential with this excuse 1 of the ships could be sold, you forget what happened with invincible before the falklands war ?? it was going to be sold to Australia only the war stopped the sale and furthermore i remember when people in this forum wrote i was a catastrphic when i wrote that the prediction of withdrawal the sea harriers and scrap the real fixed wing component of the f.a.a. were going to be true and finally you can see what happened, i repeat i don,t try to talk the royal navy down but remember that only with the approval of the construction of the 2 carriers everything is not definitive, furthermore is needed a political commitment to equip these ships with a strong fixed wing component of at least 20 f35,s plus aew and helicopters in peace time. cheers.
 
Truculent said:
MK your glass is obviously half full and you have voted for the shower that currently rule us.Only time will tell if your optimism was well placed,and I hope it is,but with the current fashion for labour promising the impossible I don't think it will happen.
I respect Beedall's analysis over yours and have utmost faith in him.
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he has been wrong on many things before rember last year he was propatizing the CVFs being canceled and the halfing of the escort fleet and the tankers. this was all last year and now the F35B basied of the GAO analisis of the program before the 1st test flight and the predicted cost increses. theise stats are out of date and their should be an update when the F35B starts its test flights next year.
 
Truculent said:
MK your glass is obviously half full and you have voted for the shower that currently rule us.Only time will tell if your optimism was well placed,and I hope it is,but with the current fashion for labour promising the impossible I don't think it will happen.
I respect Beedall's analysis over yours and have utmost faith in him.
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Beedall is immensely well-informed, worthy of respect, & regrettably often right, but he does tend to be gloomy. I can't remember an instance of things turning out worse than he thinks they might, but they've often turned out better. I'd say he's an excellent point of reference for the worst case - which, to his credit, he presents as a feared possibility, rather than what will happen.
 
If Britain continues to be fully engaged in combat operations as predicted in countries such as Afghanistan for a minimum of ten years I fully anticipate the two new carriers to end up operating reduced numbers of F35B’s, though nine is a very pessimistic number. F35B’s will be needed for Afghanistan providing CAS support. At the end of the day what is the point of buying such capable aircraft if you are not prepared to use them, they are not there for show or fancy parades! If France, Spain and Italy chose to commit forces to offensive operations at the same level as the UK then I’m sure they in turn would be forced to operate with reduced Naval Air-arm aircraft numbers.

Personally I’m convinced Iran WILL get whacked sooner or later, and I guess the UK will be involved in some shape of form. According to press reports US/UK SF units are already operating across the border in Iran interdicting arms shipments to Iraqi insurgents, it’s only a matter of time before we see a major engagement and the trip-wire for offensive air operations in Iranian airspace tripped!
 
chances of F35C slipping in the back door?

i know the uk government seems to have decided against this.. however i read an article in the september or october edition of "air international" that there are still senior royal navy officials lobbying for a purchase of 30 F35C for carrier use.. and that the second of the new carriers be delivered in conventional take off and landing configuration..

this would also solve the AEW problem.. E-2D hawkeye could be bought..

i have always concidered this magazine to be a leading aviation magazine and a credible source..

any thoughts?

and o yes.. WELL DONE SPRINGBOKS ON BRINGING THE CUP HOME!!!
 
neil said:
any thoughts?
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30 C-variants obviously wouldn't be enough. The only chance of it being ordered would be if the B was dropped from the project or became far too expensive - in which case the carriers would be finished as/converted to conventional platforms.
 
mk.. thanx for the reply.. if the royal navy tagged an F35C order on to the already substancial us navy order.. wouldnt that ensure low unit costs..?

also.. if 80 F35B are purchased.. wouldnt that also mean that only 30 or so would be available for carrier use?
 
neil said:
there are still senior royal navy officials lobbying for a purchase of 30 F35C for carrier use.. and that the second of the new carriers be delivered in conventional take off and landing configuration..
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I read a similar article. It memtioned Harriers flying form the Queen Elizabeth and the ship converting to conventional carrier sooner than expected.
Is there a major problem in only buying the F35 C variant? Or buying the B and C? I know navy Phantoms flew with the RAF.
Personally I do not really care about which service 'owns' the planes, just the the UK gets them and can use them.
 
cak said:
Is there a major problem in only buying the F35 C variant? Or buying the B and C?
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The RAF wants the B variant for themselves - buying a larger number of one type makes it easier to negotiate a lower price and use the planes wherever you need them.

Also finishing the carriers with conventional take-off and landing costs more. At the moment one has to use steam catapults, which can be irritating to fit later as you need to be able to make the steam. If EMALS becomes operational at the right time that might prove easier to fit on the carriers.
 
Musashi_kenshin said:
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Also finishing the carriers with conventional take-off and landing costs more. At the moment one has to use steam catapults, which can be irritating to fit later as you need to be able to make the steam. If EMALS becomes operational at the right time that might prove easier to fit on the carriers.
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Aren't they planned to have an electric drive, like Type 45? I'm profoundly ignorant on these matters, but my first thought is that looks ideal if an electromagnetic launch system is eventually fitted.
 
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