The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
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There are complaints coming in from Defence Professionals and long term senior members (not necessarily based on post count) that this thread is turning into a circus.
People are not posting in here because they're fed up with it being turned into an unrealistic shopping list divorced from reality etc.....
If people want to create a Royal Navy based on whatever doctrine they think is the flavour of their month then please go and create a new thread rather than bugger up this one.
There are complaints coming in from Defence Professionals and long term senior members (not necessarily based on post count) that this thread is turning into a circus.
People are not posting in here because they're fed up with it being turned into an unrealistic shopping list divorced from reality etc.....
If people want to create a Royal Navy based on whatever doctrine they think is the flavour of their month then please go and create a new thread rather than bugger up this one.
Anyone interested in the modern history of the RN’s Fleet Air Arm and V/STOL aircraft should get their hands on a new monograph published a few weeks ago:
“BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft” by Michael Pryce
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft by Michael Pryce
Details the last ‘all British’ fighter designed in detail which is also the last aircraft from the design house that brought the world the Sopwith Pup, Hawkers Hurricane, Hunter and Harrier. The culmination of the Harrier experience the P.1216 was so very nearly the next big thing in fighters after the Falklands War. The monograph is great value for only $20 (with postage) and a far better read than fantasies about Sea Typhoons and other fan-fiction.
“BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft” by Michael Pryce
BAe P.1216 Supersonic ASTOVL Aircraft by Michael Pryce
Details the last ‘all British’ fighter designed in detail which is also the last aircraft from the design house that brought the world the Sopwith Pup, Hawkers Hurricane, Hunter and Harrier. The culmination of the Harrier experience the P.1216 was so very nearly the next big thing in fighters after the Falklands War. The monograph is great value for only $20 (with postage) and a far better read than fantasies about Sea Typhoons and other fan-fiction.
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JoeMcFriday
New Member
re. P1216
Abe & Ian,
Here's a look at what one enterprising hobbyist did with the concept:-
Hawker P1216 - The Rocketry Forum
Cheers,
Mac
Abe & Ian,
Here's a look at what one enterprising hobbyist did with the concept:-
Hawker P1216 - The Rocketry Forum
Cheers,
Mac
Back on remotely Naval matters, meant to ask of the wider assembly, given the obvious requirement for the capabilities of the 22's for phone monitoring etc, I wondered if there was scope for a couple to stay on a bit longer?
I guess the longer term solution is to park the kit into something else, maybe the Darings?
Ian
I guess the longer term solution is to park the kit into something else, maybe the Darings?
Ian
The MOD will probably argue that such a role will be taken up by Rivet Joint in the future, so is no longer considered a critical requirement.
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I would have thought the daring would have or what ever the T22/23 replacement looks like should have the ability.
Its one of those things I would love to know how often they used it but unlikely to know.
In 4 Weeks in May the captain of the T42 had something similar which meant he could listen in to the Argie Comms.
The trend these days is to build bigger escorts with more space for additional ad-hoc specialist assets as directed by the mission. Miniaturization and increased portability of technical equipment must mean intelligence personnel plus what ever sneaky beaky kit they require can be loaded aboard a T45 and linked via sat to GCHQ/Northwood/Rivet Joint and/or any other classified/non-classified strategic surveillance assets in the UK/NATO's inventory.
One must also assume Astute will have a pretty comprehensive eavesdropping capability built-in as standard.
The war on terror has increased not diminished the need to monitor phone/radio traffic on land and at sea.
HMS Dragon, the 4th T45 has arrived in Portsmouth. I suspect the first thing the Navy will do is paint out the ten foot dragon on the bow.
BBC News - Royal Navy Type 45 destroyer arrives in Portsmouth
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Type 26 design article
Designing the Type 26 frigate | In-depth | The Engineer
I spotted this on another board, found it very interesting, talks about the design process and the challenges and compromises involved,
Ian
Designing the Type 26 frigate | In-depth | The Engineer
I spotted this on another board, found it very interesting, talks about the design process and the challenges and compromises involved,
Ian
It is interesting how they are going about this process. I suppose the two points of main interest will be whether these ships will have the dreaded "fitted for but not with" and whether the numbers will hold steady at 13.
The numbers I think have to hold firm as the government have a commitment to build a certain number of ships with BAE (correct me if wrong).
On the kit on the ships, I would imagine that the ASW ships will have similar kit to the T-23, whereas the GP versions will not have a TAS but may have a land attack capacity. I guess for interoperability both types can be "converted" into the other without significant disruption.
It's all about growth potential, get the hulls and ensure they are both adaptable and able to be upgraded overtime - bigger the better in my view, like the T45's. Hopefully they will be designed from day one as very quiet ships, whether AsW spec'd or GP.
The 26's will have kit taken from the 23's in point of fact - so not so much "similar to" but "carried forward from".
The Type 23's get fitted out with CAMM and Artisan-3D to replace Seawolf, and may get an update to their TAS, all of which will be physically removed from the ships when decommissioned and then fitted to the 26's as they're commissioned.
It's about as economical a way of doing business as I can think of and should result in the Type 26 going to sea with kit that's pretty thoroughly tested and debugged at the very least.
As the land attack capability should be derived from silos on board, I'd expect that any of the ships can perform that role.
Hull quietening will be across the board - they'll be large ships for their role, and will have margin for growth, while the Type 23 had it's growth margins soaked up totally by stuff added on right after the Falklands.
My main question is over silo numbers as there seems to be a single row of 8 or so which seems low for a ship that size,
Ian
i know that future escort fleet intended to be made up of
8 ASW T-26
5 GP T-26
6 AA T-45
from what i understand all these ships are fitted for but not with land attack missiles? also some of our SSN's can fire tomahawk missiles currently and in the future all will be able to do so.
on paper even without the aircraft carriers thats a pretty impressive land attack capability in its own right assuming eventually these systems come online in the future.
currently though i cannot see any news on the T-45's getting this upgrade, nor do i know any figures on costs to install these systems. Are the costs too high to bring these systems online in the near future? with the loss of the carriers it would seem to me atleast getting these systems online ASAP would be a priority.
The RN always seems to be teased by the potential they could have in the future, with the huge cuts to fleet on the promise of a brighter tomorrow lets hope that the navy gets the versatility it deserves.
8 ASW T-26
5 GP T-26
6 AA T-45
from what i understand all these ships are fitted for but not with land attack missiles? also some of our SSN's can fire tomahawk missiles currently and in the future all will be able to do so.
on paper even without the aircraft carriers thats a pretty impressive land attack capability in its own right assuming eventually these systems come online in the future.
currently though i cannot see any news on the T-45's getting this upgrade, nor do i know any figures on costs to install these systems. Are the costs too high to bring these systems online in the near future? with the loss of the carriers it would seem to me atleast getting these systems online ASAP would be a priority.
The RN always seems to be teased by the potential they could have in the future, with the huge cuts to fleet on the promise of a brighter tomorrow lets hope that the navy gets the versatility it deserves.
kev 99
Member
T-45s are able to have more and longer VLS cells added which would enable it to fire Land Attack Cruise Missiles (Tomahawk or Scalp naval), I think it pretty unlikely that they will get them however.
The RN would very much like T26 to have strike length vls cells and LACM from build, it's far from certain that they will get them.
All of the RN's SSNs can fire Tomahawk.
cheers for the info, i was not sure if the older subs had the ability. the T-45 is a great ship for what it is intended to do, though it seems a bit limited in what it can do, considering its most likely tasks it will face in the near future.
StevoJH
The Bunker Group
If CAMM can be quadpacked it would still match the number of warshots carried by the outgoing T23. However I would agree that more is better.