There is no way that RAN would lease nukes. Collins Mk 2 will be conventional and the capability team is not looking at nukes.
The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
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Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
Are they looking at AIP GF? If so what? Hydrogen? or recycled diesels?
Not in a position to say. The existing AIP modules are sitting on a pallet at ASC.
Pound for pound, one of the most expensive door stops in the ADF register.
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
Guys, please keep the RAN discussions to the RAN thread.
Ozzy Blizzard
New Member
lol sorry, us aussies just cant help ourselves!!!!
: We'll leave you pommies to your crappy nuclear subs, as big and capable as they are.
yep HMS Ocean can take JSF's in the hanger and deck as the lifts are the same size as Invincible[actually their a little larger] and one of the design aspects of the JSF B it that it can fit in the Invincible lifts and as far as i know their rated to the same weight as Invincible so Ocean could probaley
carry as much as Invincible [in fact as its missing the ski jump a bit more]
Dae JoYoung
New Member
More info here:
MEAN, menacing and devastating, this is the first of the Navy’s 21st Century super subs – and The Sun has been on an exclusive tour.
With a design more complex than the Space Shuttle, HMS Astute’s awesome abilities will take underwater warfare to a new level.
Incredibly, the £1.2billion, 7,675-ton beast could stay submerged for an astonishing 25 YEARS without running out of fuel thanks to power coming from a nuclear reactor.
While under water hi-tech gadgets purify sea water and manufacture oxygen and get rid of dangerous waste gasses.
The only performance limitation is the 98-man CREW because the stores will run out of food after three months — long enough for one-and-a-half trips around the world.
Links:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007210331,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6733777.stm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1830846/posts#comment?q=1
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Well done!
I wonder, is this the most advance sub in the world now? American sub technology seems to be falling by the waste side, but I don't see any alarm bells going off in Pentagon.
Will the English sell some of these to their allies?
MEAN, menacing and devastating, this is the first of the Navy’s 21st Century super subs – and The Sun has been on an exclusive tour.
With a design more complex than the Space Shuttle, HMS Astute’s awesome abilities will take underwater warfare to a new level.
Incredibly, the £1.2billion, 7,675-ton beast could stay submerged for an astonishing 25 YEARS without running out of fuel thanks to power coming from a nuclear reactor.
While under water hi-tech gadgets purify sea water and manufacture oxygen and get rid of dangerous waste gasses.
The only performance limitation is the 98-man CREW because the stores will run out of food after three months — long enough for one-and-a-half trips around the world.
Links:
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007210331,00.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6733777.stm
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1830846/posts#comment?q=1
--------------------------------------------------
Well done!
I wonder, is this the most advance sub in the world now? American sub technology seems to be falling by the waste side, but I don't see any alarm bells going off in Pentagon.
Will the English sell some of these to their allies?
my bad, i should have nipped it early. you know how it is though!
Astute certainly seems to be an extremely advanced submarine, even allowing for a parochial press.
I don't think that the UK would be likely to consider selling nuclear submarines to other countries other, perhaps, than its closest allies. Maybe they would consider selling them to countries like the USA, Canada or Australia. But the USA wouldn't buy them (even if it wanted them) because its procurement policy would prevent it and Australia will almost certainly stay with diesel subs. So that leaves Canada as the only possibility and I don't see that happening anytime soon. What I think is more likely is that technology might be shared between, say, the UK and USA, as it is now between the USA and Australia.
I hope that the Astute class lives up to its potential as I think that whilst the RN still has advanced SSNs, like these, and its carriers (hopefully soon to be the new Queen Elizabeths), it will remain a first class naval power.
Cheers
The Astutes will be a welcome addition, particularly their advanced surveillance capabilities and additional weapon load. Also historically the Brit's have also built very, very quiet boats, more than a capability match for any potential advisories now or in the future (China, Iran, Russia, and N-Korea).
Over at the G8 summit, according to the Telegraph, The Brit’s and French have been finalising the work share agreement for the Carrier Strike program. Fingers crossed we should hear the good news soon!
Over at the G8 summit, according to the Telegraph, The Brit’s and French have been finalising the work share agreement for the Carrier Strike program. Fingers crossed we should hear the good news soon!
I don't know why alarm bells would go off in the pentagon. the USN and NAVSEA were called in to assist in Astutes development. The UK sub industry has degraded so much that they called in the cousins for assistance.
the USN and NAVSEA did a report to congress on the degradation of the UK ship building industry as a warning to how bad things had become. That same report was made available to Australia as we have undergone similar degradation
This is common knowledge within the sub community - and has appeared in internal community publications such as Periscope and the NSL Journals.
I have no idea why you think US sub building is falling by the "waste" (sic) side - the US is a generation ahead of anyone else at the systems and package level.
BAE and the UK have learnt many lessons from the ASTUTE program and thanks to our US ally have now fully recovered and are back on track. The CAD-CAM issues have been resolved and best practice manufacturing (vertical loading of hull inserts) and design techniques introduced. The problem materialised because the UK had not built a submarine of this complexity for 20-years! Thankfully with the drip-feed of hulls up to the building of the next generation of SSBN’s the UK will hopefully ensure the skill and engineering levels remain current. I believe the Government will ensure that once Audacious is on the blocks we will see orders for (hopefully) two more to allow for a steady and continuous construction cycle.
I dissagree the current US Sub's are a generation ahead of the Astutes! The sonar fit, weapons fit, communication and stealth technology of the latter is up there with the best. I doubt there would much in it if you put an ASTUTE up against a US SSN in a simulated sub on sub attack scenario based on there respective onboard sensors / sonar, crew training and weapons at the disposal of the respective commanders.
I dissagree the current US Sub's are a generation ahead of the Astutes! The sonar fit, weapons fit, communication and stealth technology of the latter is up there with the best. I doubt there would much in it if you put an ASTUTE up against a US SSN in a simulated sub on sub attack scenario based on there respective onboard sensors / sonar, crew training and weapons at the disposal of the respective commanders.
we'll just have to disagree then. I've been to a "couple" of UDT sessions on the development and capability of Seawolf and Virginias compared to their comtemps. Astute is a fine boat - but she's no Seawolf
at an acoustic level, they (USN current gen) are a golden mile ahead of anyone else. to be blunt, the RN (as good as they are) do not have the same degree and level of sympathetic systems in place.
where the RN excels in is in trg, but since the cancellation of their diesels, even that has taken a hammering as they have lost Perisher skills.
I thought the Perisher course was still being run using Dutch conventional submarines as part of a joint program? I doubt the RN would cancel the course because it was considered a right of passage for any RN officer wanting to become a sub-commander. Using Dutch conventional subs save's cost, plus theres no way you are going to use a Nuclear boat on such an intensive course (cost / deployment schedule). Using Dutch boats allows many NATO countries, who do not operate SSN's, to take part.
Well I'm sure the Astutes will be tested against thier American and Australian counter-parts, so we will just have to wait and see if the results are ever made public.
Well I'm sure the Astutes will be tested against thier American and Australian counter-parts, so we will just have to wait and see if the results are ever made public.
The current Perisher Teachers (for the last 4 years) have all been Dutch. The RN (and the RAN) have been involved in training (and USN have AWO's on Collins every now and then as part of Perisher training)
My point is that the RN has had a huge drop in ongoing training as they don't have their own diesels anymore - Perisher provides diesel capability skills which is seen as critical to broad stroke enhance nuke rivers etc....
You won't see anything meaningful about sub comparisons in the open press. its a no go zone. Thats why newspaper articles (and the Australian, Indian "public" press are good examples of idiot parochials at work) are outright rubbish.
Read attached review of Perisher dated 2002. I can confirm, after a bit of web-surfing, the Dutch do in fact host the course for NON-NUCLEAR subs.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/usw/issue_18/perisher.htm
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/cno/n87/usw/issue_18/perisher.htm
Nuclear specific trg comes under different programmes
You comment related to UK submarine training suffering since we stopped running Perisher on conventional boats, however looking at the 2002 article the Brit's are running 'Perisher' training on SSN's as well as sending RN officer's on the Dutch program! So in effect the Brit's are getting the best of both worlds.
The importance of diesel perisher is that the threat is in the littorals. at this stage the brits don't have access to sympathetic weapons systems such as CBASS etc... so the training to deal with diesels in the littorals is completely different in a lot of areas