I'm wondering if Brazil will purchase the ex-Waves, the attached article indicates that they are looking at new builds. Cheers Brazilian Navy seeks logistics support ships
The Royal Navy Discussions and Updates
- Thread starter overlander
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Bit of a mistake there. Sorry. They'd talked about buying both, but haven't bought Albion, only Bulwark. Well, so far.
Here's something that popped up in my news feeds & that flows with comments made recently by the First sea Lord...
BAE Systems’ large uncrewed warship proposal
BAE Systems’ large uncrewed warship proposal
Babcock notes progress in Sweden and Denmark frigate bids
At the latest meeting of the Scottish Parliament’s Cross Party Group on Maritime and Shipbuilding, Babcock signalled that the Danish and Swedish naval programmes it is competing in are approaching decisive phases.
ukdefencejournal.org.uk
Got to say the UK has really been very successful in exporting it's designs, with Type 26 and 31's sold to..5 countries, I think. imho it's a good thing, because the USA has only 1 newish front line warplane (F35) and no new frontline warship since the 1980's (Arleigh Burke), so the Allies need as many options and alternatives as possible.
Babcock notes progress in Sweden and Denmark frigate bids
At the latest meeting of the Scottish Parliament’s Cross Party Group on Maritime and Shipbuilding, Babcock signalled that the Danish and Swedish naval programmes it is competing in are approaching decisive phases.
Got to say the UK has really been very successful in exporting it's designs, with Type 26 and 31's sold to..5 countries, I think. imho it's a good thing, because the USA has only 1 newish front line warplane (F35) and no new frontline warship since the 1980's (Arleigh Burke), so the Allies need as many options and alternatives as possible.
Be careful what you claim as the source of the T31 - there’s already been two Battles of Copenhagen, we don’t need a third!
Successful again, after a gap. No Type 45s sold, Type 22 & 23 only sold secondhand, only two Type 42 exported, both to Argentina, where they had unhappy lives. A few light frigates/corvettes/OPVs were sold, but even there, things didn't go too well. The Nakhoda Ragam/Bung Tomo class was a bit of a joke until Indonesia decided to buy them, presumably at a knock-down price, & the Port of Spain/Amazonas class was also farcical for a while, though happily settled much quicker. I think the Niteroi class was the last reBabcock notes progress in Sweden and Denmark frigate bids
At the latest meeting of the Scottish Parliament’s Cross Party Group on Maritime and Shipbuilding, Babcock signalled that the Danish and Swedish naval programmes it is competing in are approaching decisive phases.
Got to say the UK has really been very successful in exporting it's designs, with Type 26 and 31's sold to..5 countries, I think. imho it's a good thing, because the USA has only 1 newish front line warplane (F35) and no new frontline warship since the 1980's (Arleigh Burke), so the Allies need as many options and alternatives as possible.
It's nice to see solid sales of good ships to customers who know what they want & what they're buying.
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
It helps if you design ships with export in mind. I have no idea if the UK tried to export the Type 22 and 23 frigates as new builds, but I doubt there was anything particularly exceptional about them when they came into service. Whereas the Type 26 and 31 have been easily adapted to customers' needs.
For what it's worth, I am sceptical that Sweden will buy the Type 31 as it's probably bigger than what it needs. Denmark, on the other hand, might want something that size and would see it as familiar, so that's a good chance of winning in my opinion.
As far as I'm aware, BAE won at arbitration so it would have been Brunei that took the loss.
Ironically a modified Type 21 with US systems was considered for the RAN as a patrol frigate. The Type 23 looked at was a reduced capability GP or patrol version, although the full ASW version was very highly regarded.
While the RAN did very well with the MEKO the UK designs may have been even better.
Musashi_kenshin
Well-Known Member
I suppose MEKO won because it was cheaper in the long run? I'm not familiar with the competition.
Was the Type 23 really the best ASW frigate in the world, and by a noticeable amount? If so, why didn't it win any export competitions? The Type 26 is also an excellent ASW frigate, albeit has much better air defence potential.
Spoz is definately more knowledgeable than I on that program, but there were no bad designs in the final three.
MEKO 200, M Type, and Type 23.
The key to the program was additional general purpose hulls to increase numbers.
Had we gone for a like for like replacement of the type 12 derived River class, type 23 would have been the most logical choice.
Yes, T23 was eliminated on the basis of cost - as, in the end, was the M although it was not just shipbuilding costs between the last two. The T23 we were offered, while not as competent in ASW as the RN version, was still pretty good. And yes, in its day the T23 was the best surface ASW platform in the world - and by quite some margin.
And I agree with Volk, had a like for like on the T12s been the aim, ie ASW primacy, T23 would undoubtedly have been the choice. But at the time the submarine threat in our part of the world was pretty low, and other factors were deemed more important.
And I agree with Volk, had a like for like on the T12s been the aim, ie ASW primacy, T23 would undoubtedly have been the choice. But at the time the submarine threat in our part of the world was pretty low, and other factors were deemed more important.
100% correct.
The ships did everything they were designed to (after some teething troubles, which is common in a new class), customer didn't want them, hence the court case / results of the arbitration, & of note, 2026 will be 20 years since the court findings !
One of the things about shipbuilding / foreign sales - it was common practice that with MANY sales across the world, they would only happen due to 'wheels being greased'.
UK legislation in the late 20th century thru to the mid 00's started to clamp down on this, over & above other global agreements. It could be implied that this element did have effects on sales, with other nations happy to step in & 'fill the void'. Mixed in with global financial meltdowns, it's fair to say that over the last 30 years warship sales have been turned on their heads.
Current world concerns mixed with fleets needing updated to be able to deal with future threats are what is driving these current foreign sales. New technology that is being offered, being fully integrated, with commonality with allies also helps, as common 'equipment' translates to ease of use / available spares / well established training, all of which help to bring prices down.
SA