The new Gap.

H Nelson

New Member
Penis Envy!

Why do we then have the military to go to war with them?, and I am saying that's because of "penis envy" we are measuring each other up. We could choose to (and to a certain extend do) measure each other on amount of gold medals at the Olympics, how good we are at football, green-tech etc. but tradition and something in our reptile brain makes us think that soldiers marching in a parade is a very good measure of our "potency".
Penis Envy! Someone is taking Freud too seriously. Military usefulness does not end with combat effects. They provide the backdrop for diplomacy. If you don't think that Clinton walks into a meeting thankful that she has ICBMs, F-22s, and Aircraft carriers (not to mention the most highly trained and professional personnel force in the world) backing her up - Then you are wrong!

Even if a military force is sitting at home doing nothing, they can create large international effects. Imagine How different China and Russia's decision calculus' would be if the US had a significantly smaller military.
 

Palnatoke

Banned Member
I wouldn't know about that, care to back it up with something more substacial like a source?
Where should the natural gass come from elsewhere if not Russia?
How large a percentage of European economy is directly dependent on import of Russian gas, how large a percentage of Russian economy is directly dependent on export of gas?
I think you will find that Russian economy is highly dependent on it's gas and it only has one major customer.

Do these european countries have a substitutes for Russian gas? (like resserves, Nord sea gas or other fuels like coal, nuclear ect)




Well fine, 30 years ago was 30 years ago. Now we have a new Start agreement or NC reduction treaty between Russia and US. Good thing the world is moving forward.
Yes, but the mind set is the same; the weaponry functions as "power" demonstrators much more than it's actual use.
That's why it made sense to be able to kill every russian twice with nukes...

Back to topic then, do you agree that the F-35 procurment is good enough for USAF and that the F-22 prod should not be reopened?
Are you sattisfied with the current inventory in the USAF?
If not what would you see done differently on the subject.
In the extend that the airdefense of Libya was crushed in 48 hours with no own loses and that in what seemed to be a left-hand action with forces in region, I think US has sufficient weaponry of that sort.
I think;
* F22 served it's purpose, and I think the american socity has better uses for it's money.
* F35 My main problem with that one is that it seems to be turning out to be extreamly expensive. and I think it sorta destroys the point, however in the category
"build something prohibitively expensive to show the enemy as the poor rat he is"
it gets good marks :)

* What I would do differently? I would stop using my money on ever technological airplanes and spend them in areas where we obviously have deficiencies (like how to put down an low tech insurgency).
 

Palnatoke

Banned Member
Penis Envy! Someone is taking Freud too seriously. Military usefulness does not end with combat effects. They provide the backdrop for diplomacy. If you don't think that Clinton walks into a meeting thankful that she has ICBMs, F-22s, and Aircraft carriers (not to mention the most highly trained and professional personnel force in the world) backing her up - Then you are wrong!
I am not arguing against millitary and it's use; But there is a certain thresshold where enough is enough.
And I don't think Clinton can use F22, ICBMs and the like when she talks about trade and economical relations, I am sorry, I don't think the world works like that.

Imagine How different China and Russia's decision calculus' would be if the US had a significantly smaller military.
I actually think "somewhat the same". (assuming that the US conventional millitary can do the limited scope millitary operations I talked off above) ;
 

T.C.P

Well-Known Member
I am not arguing against millitary and it's use; But there is a certain thresshold where enough is enough.
And I don't think Clinton can use F22, ICBMs and the like when she talks about trade and economical relations, I am sorry, I don't think the world works like that.



;
The world works exactly like that I am afraid.

The saying "Might is Right" is one of the truest sayings in the world.
 

Swampfox157

New Member
In analyzing the USAF inventory, the one thing I feel that we are missing is a missile- effectively an AIM-54 replacement. Once the Tomcats went to AMARC, we lost an (albeit unreliable) 100+ nm A2A capability. AIM-120D will have enhanced range over the AIM-120C, but it will still be outranged by the ramjet-powered R-77 derivatives. These derivatives will probably have maneuver issues derived from their high speed, but the massive range (86nm according to some estimates) can NOT be ignored. Improved missiles would be a relatively affordable way to improve capability, as would enhancing legacy aircraft (AESA F-15s anyone?) that possibly wouldn't pick up quite so much irritating media criticism.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
In analyzing the USAF inventory, the one thing I feel that we are missing is a missile- effectively an AIM-54 replacement. Once the Tomcats went to AMARC, we lost an (albeit unreliable) 100+ nm A2A capability. AIM-120D will have enhanced range over the AIM-120C, but it will still be outranged by the ramjet-powered R-77 derivatives. These derivatives will probably have maneuver issues derived from their high speed, but the massive range (86nm according to some estimates) can NOT be ignored. Improved missiles would be a relatively affordable way to improve capability, as would enhancing legacy aircraft (AESA F-15s anyone?) that possibly wouldn't pick up quite so much irritating media criticism.
Name one ramjet-powered R-77 derivative in service with the Russian military. ;)

I won't even get into the AIM-54 argument.
 

STURM

Well-Known Member
In analyzing the USAF inventory, the one thing I feel that we are missing is a missile- effectively an AIM-54 replacement. Once the Tomcats went to AMARC, we lost an (albeit unreliable) 100+ nm A2A capability. AIM-120D will have enhanced range over the AIM-120C, but it will still be outranged by the ramjet-powered R-77 derivatives.
I remember reading reports of Vympel working a ram jet version of the Adder back in 1998 or 1999! There's still no sign of it. Around 2003 or 2003 there was mention of Vympel working on a long range version of the Adder, to be fitted with an IR seeker, to be used for anti-AWACs work.
 

Feanor

Super Moderator
Staff member
There is a missile called the Novator, iirc index K-172, and it's meant to be the long-range AWACS killer. However it's little more then a huge question mark at this point. The missile, to begin with, was an air-launched Buk missile, what it has turned into now (after close to a decade in development, with no prototype testing) I don't know.
 
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