T-84 Serial Production?
- Thread starter Feanor
- Start date
They were talking about the T-72 models that were destroyed in Georgia. Did you not see my quote?As I see you are new, welcome!
Can you please try to put a little more into your thread, tiny posts are very unpopular here (I learned that the hard way)
Yes the Late models of the T-72B do have ERA but if it its K-5 I am not completely sure.
But please stay on topic with the T-84 or at least provide a reason of why you brought up the T-72?
Just about every T-72B I've seen in the Russian Army has K-1 ERA.
The K-5 was put on some late 80s models.
I'm not sure if it was a full T-72BM "Rogatka" upgrade, but the tank definitely had K-5 ERA on it. . Certain T-72B models were upgraded with K-5. Seemed like it was destroyed in the initial peacekeeper base shelling.
Edit:
Here's the pic:
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/7672/ndvd006kt1.jpg
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #45
The Rogatka is the T-72B2. It features iirc Relikt era. The T-72B with K-5 is the T-72BM. At least that's as far as I know. The BM mod also includes some other upgrades, and general repairs. It's been an ongoing program since iirc 2004.
From Ukraine:
We will see BTR -4s along with T-72 and BMP series upgrades for Iraqi ground forces. The T-84 was offered but more than likely will be declined due to logistical concerns as you have stated, attempting to service way too many tank models.
Why would Ukraine want to buy T-90A/M tanks when they have the T-84 series, I think that you would find that both tanks compare rather close to each other and both are good tanks. Telling the Ukrainians to purchase T-90 series tanks would be taken more than likely as a insult.
- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #49
Well the truth is that Ukraine isn't purchasing any new tanks at all. Be they T-90 or T-84. So it's a moot point. They're upgrading their old T-64s. And even that is going at a btln every 2 years. So far a single btln has been upgraded. Granted their corrupt and seriously messy internal politics I doubt we will see any significant purchases any time soon. Hence my surprise at the purchase of T-84s by Georgia. It would mean the production lines are open. Of course it could be that they're upgrading T-80UDs, or Us, and selling them as T-84s. And it might not be a serial production run, but rather just a small batch order. Especially granted that the purchase is a mixed T-84 and T-72 buy, and especially given how it's a tiny purchase.
Really, so what T-90 version compares to T-84 and what version of T-84 would you be comparing T-90 to. Please keep the Russian chest thumping at a minimum and give me some cold hard facts on your assumptions.
This is just ridiculous.
The T84 is nothing like a "westernized" edition of a T80U.
If you don't forget it performed very poorly in Greece.
I don't want offend you.
But i can't imagine that the facility "Malyshev Factory" can build only a couple of them.
It is bankrupt like the rest of the country.
The T84 is nothing like a "westernized" edition of a T80U.
If you don't forget it performed very poorly in Greece.
I don't want offend you.
But i can't imagine that the facility "Malyshev Factory" can build only a couple of them.
It is bankrupt like the rest of the country.
That's your answer?
They offer a version which features a 120mm gun.
So what? Does this lonely feature makes it a westernized T-80U?
What of all the other possible configurations with 125mm guns?
Calling the tank westernized because a company also offers a 120mm gun version to possible customers is very, very far fetched...
They offer a version which features a 120mm gun.
So what? Does this lonely feature makes it a westernized T-80U?
What of all the other possible configurations with 125mm guns?
Calling the tank westernized because a company also offers a 120mm gun version to possible customers is very, very far fetched...
There are some that call the T-90 a westernized T-72 so whats the point, Russia and Ukraine both have relied on western electronic & sighting systems technology for modernization upgrades, T-90 also has failed the Indian Army in many critical areas so lets not use the Greece trials as an excuse to discredit the T-84. We are also not discussing the economic hardships that Ukraine at the present time is going thru, we are talking about the capabilities of the T-84 tank. I would give both the T-90M export Russia's latest T-90 design presentation and Ukraines T-84 M Oplot as a even match, both designed models are actually nothing more than T-80 upgrades that were envisioned many many years ago with a small twist in ERA packages and the Russians going with the decision to use those upgrades on the T-72 and T-90 series due to their economic issues.
You may also want to research Russian maingun technology also, you will find that they have designed dual purpose Breach and recoil mechanisms to handle multi caliber mainguns.
First of all, the only thing that the T90 is using from abroad is the Thermal Sight with regards to the industry this will change in the next years.
If you mention the "fail" of the T90, if it had failed then India would not purchase it.
And the other four nations also not.
At that you should consider that up to now there are about 1400 build T90 and in the future the number will raise by 1000tanks.
In comparison to ??? T84.
And further i would like to see the RHA numbers of the T84.
Also you forget about the outdated fire-control System on the T84.
And all the other electronic systems.
You can not compare a T84 to the latest versions like the T90M and the command version T90AK it is just ridiculous. (not only FLIR from abroad)
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=107015&d=1264889436
I don't want offend you.
But if we are looking at the Ukraine's developments in the last two decades, there is nothing.
And then Ukraine is building a tank which is comparable to the last Russian tanks ?!
Well it sounds like Ukraine develop a S204 which outperforms the S400.
That is just my opinion.
If you mention the "fail" of the T90, if it had failed then India would not purchase it.
And the other four nations also not.
At that you should consider that up to now there are about 1400 build T90 and in the future the number will raise by 1000tanks.
In comparison to ??? T84.
And further i would like to see the RHA numbers of the T84.
Also you forget about the outdated fire-control System on the T84.
And all the other electronic systems.
You can not compare a T84 to the latest versions like the T90M and the command version T90AK it is just ridiculous. (not only FLIR from abroad)
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=107015&d=1264889436
I don't want offend you.
But if we are looking at the Ukraine's developments in the last two decades, there is nothing.
And then Ukraine is building a tank which is comparable to the last Russian tanks ?!
Well it sounds like Ukraine develop a S204 which outperforms the S400.
That is just my opinion.
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- Thread Starter Thread Starter
- #58
Ukranian ability to develop SAM systems is incomparable to their ability to develop tank technology. Granted a serial production will run into quality control issues, corruption, and general efficiency problems. (not unlike those encountered in the Russian defence industry ) But to argue that they can't design an effective upgrade of the T-80 acorss all main systems is ridiculous. They may not be able to build a next generation MBT, or anything similar to the FCS and other similar modular combat system concepts. But they are quite capable to upgrade, and modernize Soviet era technology to something competitive in the modern world.
The main reason Ukraine hasn't won major tank deals is precisely because of the state of their production facilities.
) But to argue that they can't design an effective upgrade of the T-80 acorss all main systems is ridiculous. They may not be able to build a next generation MBT, or anything similar to the FCS and other similar modular combat system concepts. But they are quite capable to upgrade, and modernize Soviet era technology to something competitive in the modern world.The main reason Ukraine hasn't won major tank deals is precisely because of the state of their production facilities.
How do you know that all that is shoe horned in a Russian T-90 is a French designed sight, you are making broad statements that are backed up with nothing more than internet sites that are not even trust worthy but rather amusing, inregards to Indian T-90S - it has been a proven case with the dismal initial and follow on batches of tanks that were recieved from Russia, do some research before making off the fly comments inregards to this subject, they are becoming more public. Again leave the numbers and quality control out of your equation they mean nothing in comparing both tanks models. I highly doubt that you and most of the people on this site can even lay mention that is worth while in regards to T-90M, I brought this very same tank up for conversation a few years ago and everyone thought that I was bonkers to even lay mention that Russia had a M version with Relikt armor, its just sheer madness on what some jerk offs like me could even think of :rosie. I also hate to burst your bubble but the T-84M pretty much has the same type of upgrades but with a armor package with a slight twist. You state that you would like to see the armor protection values on a T-84M, do you know the protection values of a T-90M, most likely not even though there are alot of folks out there who think that they really know, except maybe me
. I have to ask why you think that the FCS on T-84M is obsolete, it is just as good as T-90M and it actually took the Russians a little while longer inregards to upgrading versus what Ukraine did with OPLOT. Hers a photo for you to ponder, kinda looks like the same upgrades as T-90M.