For those of you who don't wish to purchase the book there is a free copy at the lit network:
http://www.online-literature.com/suntzu/[/url]
http://www.online-literature.com/suntzu/[/url]
Sun Tzu - The Art of War
- Thread starter srirangan
- Start date
Overall, the contents are similar to http://www.chinapage.com/sunzi-e.html. The chinapage website is better as it has the orginal copy in Chinese for analysis. BTW, the English translation by Lionel Giles needs tightening. For e.g. the five constant factors or principles. The first concept Moral Law. In Chinese, its call Tao, it could be loosely translated as Mandate or Political Will.Stanislaw said:
A good comparison would be Clausewitz, the German miliatry philosopher.
Hi,
I can't do justice to the man just by writing a few line but if you go to the search engine---type John Boyd or -----USAF COL JOHN BOYD---Wallah---a multitude of articles would pop out. So Enjoy.
Here is a man who's IQ was 90, became a fighter pilot in the korean war, not a single combat victory to his name, but was a hell of a pilot. So he got sent to Nellis AFB where the AF proverb 40 second Boyd came into being. He would challenge any fighter pilot that within 40 second, he would be from a position of disadvantage to a firing position against any adversary or the winner gets $40. Not a single pilot at Nellis could win the challenge for as long Boyd was there and he was there for years. He is the originator of the OODA loop. The energy-maneuverability factor is his brain child. As a matter of fact, he is the father of the modern day aircraft dog fight strategy.
He is the person to take the design of the F X fighter to F 15 and was the originator of the F 16 fighter against all time adversity from the top brass of USAF. Even the ability, the range of the F 16 were not fully disclosed to the AF top brass due to political/strategic reasons till the funding to produce the fighter was procured. He was also involved in the design parameters of the F18.
Even the strategy for the assault in the first gulf war was his doing.
you guys got to read up on him.
I can't do justice to the man just by writing a few line but if you go to the search engine---type John Boyd or -----USAF COL JOHN BOYD---Wallah---a multitude of articles would pop out. So Enjoy.
Here is a man who's IQ was 90, became a fighter pilot in the korean war, not a single combat victory to his name, but was a hell of a pilot. So he got sent to Nellis AFB where the AF proverb 40 second Boyd came into being. He would challenge any fighter pilot that within 40 second, he would be from a position of disadvantage to a firing position against any adversary or the winner gets $40. Not a single pilot at Nellis could win the challenge for as long Boyd was there and he was there for years. He is the originator of the OODA loop. The energy-maneuverability factor is his brain child. As a matter of fact, he is the father of the modern day aircraft dog fight strategy.
He is the person to take the design of the F X fighter to F 15 and was the originator of the F 16 fighter against all time adversity from the top brass of USAF. Even the ability, the range of the F 16 were not fully disclosed to the AF top brass due to political/strategic reasons till the funding to produce the fighter was procured. He was also involved in the design parameters of the F18.
Even the strategy for the assault in the first gulf war was his doing.
you guys got to read up on him.
Exactly what do you mean by your comment. I read the best copy I could get my hands on so from the translation that I read I deduced my answer. I never stated which translation that I read but the fact remains that the texts are still applicable, even today.driftder said:
General_Conway
New Member
I read Samuel Griffith's translation (with a forward by BH Liddell Hart). It seemed fairly accurate compared to the discussions and comments I have heard. Sun Tzu has to be one of the greatest strategists in human history for his works to still be used today...
Hi,
Sun tzu----if you win a conflict, you will see that you applied the art of war strategy to it, or the opponent was dumb enough to have screwed it through and through and by default you became the winner.
Sun tzu's is a blanketed statements or directives, whatever one may want to call them. They are designed to fit all circumstance in which one force will be victorious. In other words, Sun tzu does not go out on a limb to say if you do this and this, your result will be victory.
Sun tzu----if you win a conflict, you will see that you applied the art of war strategy to it, or the opponent was dumb enough to have screwed it through and through and by default you became the winner.
Sun tzu's is a blanketed statements or directives, whatever one may want to call them. They are designed to fit all circumstance in which one force will be victorious. In other words, Sun tzu does not go out on a limb to say if you do this and this, your result will be victory.
General_Conway
New Member
I would have to agree that his "principles" are blanketed...VICTORA1 said:
Berserk Fury
New Member
Sun Tzu's principals are very basic though relating them to modern warfare is a bit tricky as the language wasn't as developed back then and he didn't plan us to be reading his writings either way. It really is a good read if you're bored or if you're waiting in the car. xP
General_Conway
New Member
I do not think any writter fully considers the possibility that people 3000 years later would be reading their works.Berserk Fury said:
Berserk Fury
New Member
lol
It's amazing that the writings still lived through the ages...
not many books have other than the Bible.
It's amazing that the writings still lived through the ages...
not many books have other than the Bible.
General_Conway
New Member
Funny you mention the Bible and Sun Tzu. BH Liddel Hart mentioned that both books survived the ages. It is interesting to think that both books changed many things for centuries. The Bible, for lack of a better word, influenced Christianity, and The Art of War revolutionized the way soldiers thought about the battle field.Berserk Fury said:
Berserk Fury
New Member
True indeed though more people have read the bible than Sun Tzu.
^^
^^
Applicable in every respect, not just psychological alone. As for my comment, its just to point out that you are missing a big part of the gist when you read a translation. That's where most non-Chinese who read Sun-tzu get side tracked. That's why I suggest a more in-depth reading along with a understanding of the Chinese culture and psyche especially on the first chapter - which the main gist is don't go to war if you can help it but if you must, then make plans not to lose. Note the phrase is "not to lose".Col.Gen. said:
Anyway what I am saying is not meant to be combative, just a observation that most non-Chinese who read Sun-tzu get side tracked. Case is point - ever tried Omar Khayyam in its pure unadulterated form? Thats what I am trying to get at.
Well he did go on a limb sort of by stating that if you trust your conduct of warfare to any mention of luck or if you did not plan properly ie fighting in snow country without any warm clothing or being too rigid etc, you deserve to have your butt kick and your head handed to you on a platterVICTORA1 said:
.