Story of Aussie SAS actions in "Operation Anaconda".

[Pathfinder-X]

I drop my bagpack too in combat. Anyone who wise enough to carry those while in the shootout will find themself cursing the pack in the end. Besides, it's not like you going to eat during the combat. I usually carry 5 extra mags in the pouch and 5 more (If extended ops expected) in the pack. If you are a good shooter, 2 mags will be enough to force a platoon to retreat. If you are a lousy shooter 10 mags won't do any good. the trick is not to panic. a panic soldier can spent 5 clips shooting over the enemy head in a matter of minutes.

2 clips enough to force a platoon to retreat? dude that might work against bandits but not against a well trained army platoon.

 

[Awang se]

Fighting is not just about who's the better shoot but also on tactics employed, direct or indirect support available to the troops and morale. I agree it would take a lot more to force a well train troops to retreat. actually, i never have any experiance fighting against a well train, well equip troops. all of my fighting is involving smuglers and pirates.

 

[Pathfinder-X]

during my training using MILES it took our company a good half an hour to force a platoon to retreat while 42 of us is counted as dead. but then again that platoon belongs the PPCLA regiment(airborne), one most well trained infantry unit in canadian army besides the JTF-2.

 

[neel24neo]

i am not a soldier,atleast not yet,but i have heard accounts of indian army soldiers in srilanka,fighting the LTTE...there is an account where one soldier went missing in a firefight.he got trapped in a hut and his platoon left the place without him.he had the usual ammo load of 150(7.62mm SLR) rounds.he held out against the LTTE all night until his buddies returned next morning.he employed excellent fire discipline and the rebels reportedly believed there were more men in the hut.the SLR is semi-automatic and i guess that was perhaps the reason why he held out that long.may be he was lucky,but i believe awang se has a strong case when he say that a good shooter needs lesser amount of ammo(u might call the LTTE a bunch of bandits but they are better trained than that).
by the way,that soldier was a gurkha.

 

[neel24neo]

actually there were two of them.soldiers of 1/11gurkha rifles.rifleman thapa held out for 17 hours against the rebels,also looking after the injured havildar(sgt)gurung.reportedly he had fired just 22 rounds.all the while the LTTE were spraying automatic fire from their ak-47s.

 

[Aussie Digger]

Controlled accurate fire is what it's all about. Spraying rounds looks good in the movies, but is next to useless in real life. Look at the televised images in Iraq. You see "militia" holding AK's in their hands and "spraying" automatic fire around corners without even looking at their target. It looks good for the average TV viewer I guess, but it's tactically useless, and worse dangerous. You're unlikely to do any damage to your enemy (unless luck plays a big part), but you ARE likely to have people start shooting back at you. People who can take AIMED shots... I personally much prefer seeing professional soldiers in a good fire position, holding their pers weapon correctly and taking aimed shots...

 

[sqnhunter]

Well, I normally used to carry 9 mags in my webbing plus the mag fitted to my rifle or 600 rounds of link plus 200 fitted to the gun (when operating the Minimi LSW). If required (when undertaking recon duties normally) I could have carried an additional 6 mags in chest webbing, that I attached to my normal webbing. I seldom ran out of ammo... In relation to the packs, do you mean to say you undertake section or platoon (or even Company) level attacks with your packs on? I cannot help but think your freedom of movement would be significantly lessened if you fight this way, let alone urban type terrain. You simply can't run properly if you've got a 50 pound pack hanging off you. If you don't run during attacks etc you're going to die. I don't agree it's a matter of training either. The packs aren't thrown away for good. They're dumped temporarily to allow you to survive the immediate situation. The typical Australian Army soldier carries sufficient water, rations etc to survive for 24 hours in his webbing, along with emergency first aid kits, camouflage cream, compasses, maps, NVG's etc. The ammunition carried is normally sufficient for any immediate contacts, attacks etc allowing you to dump your pack... If you don't carry ammo on you so that you can access it when you need it, I fail to see what benefit you would have by carrying it at all. Do you mean to say that you open your packs up in the middle of a contact to recover additional ammo? If so, then I really think your fire control needs to be tightened up somewhat or carry more ammo in your webbing. As I mentioned I used to carry up to 300 rounds of 5.56mm ammo for our rifle or upt to 800 rounds of link ammo for the Minimi. This always proved sufficient for attacks or immediate contacts. We'd normally "re-org" at the end of the contact when conditions allowed, re-gain our packs and refurbish our ammo. I can't see that your army (Canadian I think?) would be any different.

You have to spell it out for the layman lol. An infantry pack is about 25 - 28kg. A SF pack is about 35 - 38 kg. Just extra rations and munitions usually to fight your way out.
Back packs are equipped with two tags, pull in case of emergency. There for a reason lol. Its more usual to keep the pack with you except in emergency. Flip drop and done. As for extra ammo, what the hell is it doing in the back pack, back where? lol. Most not in your webbing will be tailing you in a bum pack for quick use and your never without it, If your smart. Like your Bum Paper. Infantry usually always has support for protracted contact, and as such has a resupply. You run out you top up. But the back pack is not required for section, company attack. That should always have support, resupply and mortar and artillery cover. The pack then becomes cumbersome, a good target and a red flag for your position. Go light go right. Many here dont understand the mil jargon even though they would like to

 

[sqnhunter]

2 clips enough to force a platoon to retreat? dude that might work against bandits but not against a well trained army platoon.

Wont see an Auss platoon retreat. Or a section for that matter. No matter what your doing, they are coming at you, not sitting tight or retreating lol?
They can fire all the rounds they like at them, they will be overrun in about 2 minutes. You will only stop them with artillery, mortar or air support, and it takes more than two minutes to do that. By then its too late. Thats the basis of the aussie technique. By the way, canadian and english and american ground advance by section or platoon strength is all different to the australian way.

 

[sqnhunter]

Very very basic infantry fighting skill: Once you are in a kill zone priority #1 is to move out of the kill zone as quickly as possible, all other considerations are subordinate to this. I've never heard of infantry actually assaulting while wearing a ruck and dropping it on contact is second nature to a US infantryman. You must consider that the US has ditched the old ALICE/LBE and are carrying more than double the ammo on their tac vests that they used to carry in the old ammo pouch (6 mags, 30 rounds each =180 rounds).

Principle idea is not to move into the kill zone in the first place lol. But yes, in the case of ambush the first rule is survival, not back packs lol. I think you meant all other considerations are "secondary". The subordinates are the ones making the decision to drop the pack or to drop the pack lol. Thats the reality. A dead soldier serves no one, and I certainly never wanted the words on my epitaph....Died a hero saving his backpack" lol. Auss army use the 7 point light assault webbing which has soooo much room for extra ammo and whatever, and sometimes can be cause to overload the troopie. However, when he attacks, all is with him and readily available, as I am sure All others are. Canadians use slightly different tactics to us and US forces differ again, but in the end, dropping the pack is pure survival.
This said, I just watched a utube vid on a canadian section patrol coming under fire while walking down a road. It was interesting to note that 50% of then dropped pack and 50% continued to wear them. They were attacked from the 9oc over a 6 foot high wall from range 300 meters . I think it is like any other military, drop them if you want. I dont think all felt that threatened at that range under small arms fire. Guess its personal choice, not so much training regime. ???